Geller Slams “Half-Assed” NY Anti-Mosque Protest where Black American was Misidentified as Muslim and Abused

“Who organized this anti-mosque protest? Sharif El-Gamal?”

Pam Geller is complaining about a “ill-conceived botched mess of a protest” which took place close to Ground Zero yesterday, at which a black man was abused by members of the crowd who mistook him for a Muslim. However, her post leads with her objection to a Tweet by Max Blumenthal on the subject blaming her, and she tells us that the “notorious Jew hater” is “lying, slandering and making up racist propaganda against me again”:

I have no idea who organized this rally. Clearly, whoever organized this was careless, unprepared, shooting from the hip and harmful to the cause of freedom and compassion. I wasn’t even in the state, nor did I know anything about this half-assed effort…

The protest was organised by the “Coalition to Honor Ground Zero”, although this group’s leadership remains unclear – there is a list of some “organizations and individuals” who are opposed to the “Ground Zero Cordoba Initiative Mosque and Islamic Center”, but clearly most of these played no part in organising the event. However, the “Coalition” claims that the protest was endorsed by a number of groups:

The Bravest; 9/11 Families for a Safe and Strong America; Blue Collar Corner; Women United International; Center for Security Policy; Stop Shariah Now; ACT! For America and ACT! Manhattan; Congress on Racial Equality; Alliance for Interfaith Resistance; Human Rights Coalition Against Radical Islam; Sudan Freedom Walk; Proclaim Justice to the Nations, Dr. Herbert London of the Hudson Institute; North Country Patriots; Victory Baptist Church of the Bronx; Lori Lowenthal Marcus, Z Street; Florida Security Council; The Peace through Strength Institute; Free the First Amendment Committee; V-USA – Veterans United to Save America; New York City Firefighters Hockey Team; Christians and Jews United for Israel; and many other organizations and leaders, as well as local residents living in the Ground Zero area.

Simon Deng, Frank Gaffney, and James Lafferty are listed among the speakers, as is Tom Trento if the Florida Security Council. There is bad blood between Geller and Trento over the handling of the Rifqa Bary case, and it’s perhaps significant that Geller’s Stop Islamization of America (SIOA) does not get a mention anywhere. One gets the impression that the rally was an attempt to sideline Geller and Robert Spencer, and that she led with Blumenthal’s Tweet because it provided her with the material and the excuse for a counter-attack.

Also involved with yesterday’s rally was the “Hard Hat Pledge”, and the most aggressive abuser of the black man – calling him a “coward” and apparently challenging him to a fight – was wearing a blue hard hat. The “Hard Hat Pledge” exists for construction workers who wish to pledge that they will not assist with the construction of the mosque. According to the group’s founder, Andy Sullivan:

We feel we have been betrayed by our civic leaders and elected officials as they allow the Cordoba Initiative Group build their Mega-Mosque on top of the ashes of the 3,ooo innocents who were slaughtered on 911.

Sullivan is also an activist against Obama and big government, complaining that

I presently am a field super for the biggest union construction outfit on the east coast and doing better than most but what I hear from the cash cows of the city is nobody wants to spend a dime or invest it while this guy is in office. These fears are coming from Bank of America, Citigroup and J.P. Morgan Chase maybe you heard of them.

I’m sure that Sullivan would disapprove of how this particular “Hard Hat Pledge” member conducts himself in the video, although it does raise the obvious issue of whether construction workers who would be willing to work on the project will be subject to intimidation.

Sullivan praises Geller on his blog, although he also identifies some Muslims as “salt of the earth” and explains that he has no problem with the project if it is relocated. The “Coalition”, though, regards mosques as “Trojan Horses”, and there are two so-far blank pages on its site labelled “Boston Mosque” and “London Mosque”.

There was also an ugly moment at a prior rally at the same site in June, when two Copic Christians were misidentified as Muslims. I noted a previous spat between Geller and Blumenthal here.

UPDATE: Charles Johnson notes a neo-confederate presence at the rally.

UPDATE 2: Max adds:

Geller’s claim that she had “no idea” about the August 22 rally is ridiculous. According to the Daily Caller, “Beth Gilinsky, an organizer for The Coalition to Honor Ground Zero and founder of the Jewish Action Alliance, is coordinating the rally.” And Gilinsky and Geller have worked hand-in-glove for years.

UPDATE 3: Someone on Facebook has claimed that the black man in the video had tried to provoke the crowd with “racist rhetoric”, while Andrea Lafferty of the Traditional Values Coalition has complained that the video was supposedly made by someone working for ABC news, and that this person had asked aggressive questions to members of the crowd. Geller has publicised both claims under the bizarre heading “Blumenthal Busted” (she seems obsessed with him), exulting, semi-coherently, that “That wasn’t a racist, that was ABC News. Evil schmuck.” Whether this means that she no longer considers the rally to have been “half-assed” remains similarly unclear.

UPDATE 4: Geller now writes, in an update to her original post, that

This incident (above) that was blown out of all proportion by Blumenthal was not the Ground Zero rally, but a skirmish outside the Path train entrance.

So it wasn’t the rally itself, just the people who were on their way to the rally. Looks like Geller’s realised she’s insulted all the other right-wing “anti-Islamist” outfits who organised the event and is now trying to dig herself out of a hole with a preposterous bit of hair-splitting.

85 Responses

  1. Sounds like a “set up” to me – which does not change
    the fundamentals of the dispute.

  2. Sounds like a “set up” to me – which does not change the fundamentals of the dispute.

    There are a lot of interest who’d dearly love to slander opponents of the G.Z. mosque.

    An interesting note; most of the ‘Obama’ Mosque supporters claim it isn’t at Ground Zero at all, but some 600 feet away.

    That’s actually quite close when you think that those who jumped from the upper floors of the towers to flee the heat and flames plumeted more than twice that distance to their deaths.

    Just putting the 600 feet BS into perspective.

    • June, have you ever actually visited Ground Zero yourself?

      Park51 will not even be visible from the World Trade Center site except from above the 20th floor or so of the forthcoming “Freedom Tower.” From the view of a person on the ground at the World Trade Center site, Park 51 will be well hidden by taller buildings in between.

      It is only to be expected that there would be some mosques and Muslim community centers built in that neighborhood — in addition to the many Christian churches already there — because a lot of Muslims live and work there.

      For some good, sarcastic commentary on how ridiculous this whole brouhaha is, see:

      Halal Food At Ground Zero!
      http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2010/08/halal_food_at_ground_zero.php

    • Yes, let’s put it into perspective,

      The Wall St/Tribecca area of New York has been known as “Little Syria” since the 1800’s when Muslims and Christians migrated from the Ottoman Empire.

      And, their ACTAUL Mosque (no the the proposed inter-faith Cultural Center complete with cooking school, basketball court, theater, and prayer room) has existed 4 blocks blocks from the WTC since the 1970’s, before the WTC was even built!

  3. Yes I believe it is an attempt by Islam to say ” we won”.

    Lets do a deal – but only if we can build a Christian Church next to Muslim shrine .

    • There are already plenty of Christian churches in the neighborhood.

      • But America is the most Christian country in the World
        – that is why ( at the moment is still so blessed).
        So there SHOULD be plenty of Christian Churches in New York. But how many Christian churches do you
        see in Saudi Arabia or in Iran.

        Go on holiday to Afganistan – but save money by not
        paying for a return ticket. What about Uzbekistan where
        they know about torture – do you wan’t to start up a little
        Christian community there – By the way don’t book a return flight.
        It is a type of war – who can give eternal life Jesus or Mohammed. Who do you think in your heart can do this – Do you believe Jesus who said all others are imposters , thieves an murderers,

      • To Charles Allen: Compared to most other countries in the world, Japan too has been quite “blessed,” despite being one of the LEAST Christian countries in the world. Western Europe too has been quite “blessed,” for the most part, despite de-Christianization. “Blessedness,” at least in a tangible, material sense, does not hinge on being Christian.

        What do you think of Efraín Ríos Montt, by the way?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efra%C3%ADn_R%C3%ADos_Montt

    • There are numerous Christian shrines next to Muslim ones. A famous Christian monastery exists in Syria, where people of all faiths go to study with the monks. It’s quite an experience.

    • That’s one country – Syria has always had more toleration of Christianity.

    • Charles, really?!! Since when does the United States compare itself to other countries other than to point out our diverse cultural heritage and inherent freedoms for all?

  4. Here’s the story of a Canadian
    uslim women who opposes the G.Z. Mosque. She sat in on a meeting between the mosque’s organisers and the widow of a 911 victim. She’s gotten threat from one of the mosque’s principle bakcers for having done so.

    It shows the true nature of these sinister bastards, and what they’re really all about. If you’re a Kuffur and oppose the mosque, you are a bigot. If you’re a Muslim and you oppose the mosque, you are threatened.

    Also, note how those making the threats at first denied having even made the phone call.

    http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/08/17/15053976.html

    • The alleged “threat” was ambiguous at best. The article you linked to says “Raza says El Gamal’s tone was threatening and she took the phone call as a clear threat against her, and not as it is sometimes used, as a casual phrase meaning goodbye” — the phrase in question being “May Allah protect you.”

      • I agree – I’ve followed so many links to supposedly shocking stories about Rauf etc that turn out to be nothing very much that I am less likely to believe/follow up any potentially more damaging items.

    • I think a shame if a moderate friendly Muslim woman was villified – but are you sure this is not another set up – remember the Koran says it is OK to deceive the Kuffir .

  5. To Richard Bartholomew: Thanks very much for keeping us up-to-date about the activities of “Ground Zero” “Mosque” opponents.

    It would be nice if you could give more publicity to the activities of defenders of religious freedom too. In case you didn’t see my earlier comment, here’s a blog post of mine about two forthcoming rallies:

    Upcoming counter-protests against recent anti-mosque protests
    http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/8/21/122744/911

  6. Diane – Moslems do not have a reputation of defenders
    of religious freedom – but Americans do – whose side are you on ?

    • Muslims have a variety of opinions about religious freedom, as do Christians. Here in the U.S.A. some Christians are defending religious freedom while others are trying tot take it away, some to an extreme degree — such as the “Christian Reconstructionists,” who hope eventually to restore “Biblical civil law,” complete with death penalty by stoning for “idolators” and “blasphemers.”

      Back in the Middle Ages, Muslim countries (such as Moorish Spain) were not exactly paragons of religious freedom by today’s standards, but were a lot better than Christian Europe. Jews were treated better in Muslim countries than in Christian countries.

      • btw., the highest state of religious freedom during the middle age in Europe existed in pagan-ruled Lithuania

      • Diane -That could be true but this here and now and
        Iraq is prime example of Christians being persecuted.
        If we are talking history Christendom was a better place to live than most places. The Aztecs and Incas were slaughtering thousands of humans in sacrifice each day.

    • The American side, Charles.

  7. If you’ve not come across it already Charlie Brooker has a great post on CIF on the debate: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque

    Here’s a taster:

    “To get to the Cordoba Centre from Ground Zero, you’d have to walk in the opposite direction for two blocks, before turning a corner and walking a bit more. The journey should take roughly two minutes, or possibly slightly longer if you’re heading an angry mob who can’t hear your directions over the sound of their own enraged bellowing.

    Perhaps spatial reality functions differently on the other side of the Atlantic, but here in London, something that is “two minutes’ walk and round a corner” from something else isn’t actually “in” the same place at all. I once had a poo in a pub about two minutes’ walk from Buckingham Palace. I was not subsequently arrested and charged with crapping directly onto the Queen’s pillow. That’s how “distance” works in Britain. It’s also how distance works in America, of course, but some people are currently pretending it doesn’t, for daft political ends.”

  8. Casper – by your logic I can therefore walk two minutes
    from any mosque in a muslim country and build a church.

    • Wat does the number of Christian churches in other countries have ANYTHING to do with America? The answer is nothing. And by the with, you shameful bigot, there are many Americans who are also Muslim. This is not a theocracy. Read the Constitution.

      • TREVOR
        No I am not a bigot – I just believe in Jesus is our saviour rather than Mohammed.
        But I believe in fairness so why are Christians being
        persecuted in Muslim countries most of which are
        theocracies of a sort. Also why can’t we build churches in most Muslim countries.
        Why does this make me a bigot but the muslims not bigots. Why have most Christians being persecuted out of Iraq – because of bigotry. ?
        If a Muslim leaves the faith for Christianity they can be
        sentenced to death – and you call ME a bigot. Are you
        blind to what goes on in the world ?
        I have muslim friends and neighbours so I am not a bigot.
        All the founders of America were Christians – thats why
        everyone tries to get into America – its freedom – but it
        has to be reciprocal.

  9. The alleged “threat” was ambiguous at best.

    Why of course! And what of his heated denials that he ever made the threatening call in the first place?

    Are they, too “ambiguous” at best?

    Thank god, Reza didn’t flush the number.

    It’s interesting to note that Tareq Fatah, an associate of Reza, also recieved death threats after opposing the introduction of sharia tribunals in Ontario a couple years back

    As did his 5 and 6 year-old children.

    Three cheers for “ambiguity”

    • Until we see follow-up stories, we don’t yet know what really happened in the specific case of Raheel Raza vs. Sharif El Gamal. The fact that other Muslim secularists have received death threats from Muslim theocratic fanatics is irrelevant.

  10. <i<There are already plenty of Christian churches in the neighborhood.

    What about St George’s that had been destroyed on 911.

    Apparently THAT kind of insensitivity is perfectly acceptable, even desirable.

  11. But that was an Orthodox church. So why do your lot harrass Orthodox believers in the area?

  12. Don’t like this mosque purely for the amount it will cost the Muslim community. They could better spend such millions by building a Muslim School of excellence to benefit the mainly poor families of Islamic origins. It is also a better way of gaining friends in America as education institutions are much valued and cherished.

    I saw one person in the video @ 2:05 in the white shirt whom I recognised as a gay and lesbians issue man. I guess we all have bigots in every section of society.

  13. Charles Allen wrote:
    “But America is the most Christian country in the World
    – that is why ( at the moment is still so blessed).”

    lol…

    What about the ‘Vatican State’ Charlie?

  14. I am a Catholic but you say the tiny Vatican state is more Christian than America – you may be right
    but not quite sure of the importance of this to the argument of building a mosque near 9/11.
    I watch a lot of American evangelical channels and
    if this will satisfy you America is the 2nd most Christian
    country in the world – AT THE MOMENT.

    • At the time America was founded, no Catholic country allowed the building of Protestant churches. Should the founders have forbidden the construction of Catholic churches until Catholic countries allowed Protestant churches?

  15. Dont know if this is a spoof but in Gaza 400 child
    brides were married to Muslims – most were well under 10 – google it up.

    Diane and Sarah are you a Muslim or a Christian because Jesus allowed no confusion here- either you
    believe Jesus was the Son of God or not.

    JESUS – never committed a single sin ” HE WAS THE PERFECT LAMB OF GOD HIS FATHER”.

    Why not spend your time helping persecuted Christians worldwide – often by muslims eg as in Sudan.
    It looks to me you are posing and posturing and ingratiating yourselves with the Muslim faith for
    whatever reason I cannot understand.

  16. […] her and the group that organized the rally, The Coalition To Honor Ground Zero. Richard Bartholomew speculated that Geller may have flown into a petulant frenzy over the pointed exclusion of her outfit, Stop […]

  17. Neither Geller nor Spence had anything to do with this rally. BUt If you’re looking to dig up dirt, I have some! Below is a video of the PRO-mosque rally featuring several speakers. At about 3:55, or so, one of the speakers goes into an anti-semitic tirade about zionists controlling America ( they just can’t help themselves!) and then the camera cuts away to a ( I think) Jewish women, who expresses her dsigust, says “that’s enough”, and then walks away.

    What’s more, when the guy’s finished, people say nothing, and then another speaker just steps up to the podium

    Perhaps Diane Vera could find some “ambiguity” here.

    http://www.solomonia.com/blog/archive/2010/08/protest-at-ground-zero/index.shtml

  18. June: Neither Geller nor Spence had anything to do with this rally. But If you’re looking to dig up dirt, …

    Hate groups and their financiers claim that they are against “Islamism” and not Muslims. Yet no matter how much they obfuscate their racial hatred and ethnocentrism, the result of their campaigns produces the fruits of racial tensions as in the above video.

    There is no smoke without fire unless June is blind, so accept the thuggery you support and its products. Muslim youth are not born with hatred, but are coerced into mindless actions by organised thugs such as those behind these dozens of hate groups and the media groups who support their misleading languages. Whether it’s because English is their second language or not, the mosque is not even at “Ground Zero”, yet New York Times pimps their lines continuously.

  19. Joomla – so if I am coerced into mindless thuggery
    like eg like slitting throats on you tube I can blame it on the mindless thug who coerced me – I see – this would
    be a great one for lawyers fees.

  20. No Charles, you can blame it on religion like you blame everything else. Personal responsiblity – you can’t have it both ways.

    By the way, where does Israel rank on the “world’s most christianest nations” chart?

  21. TOM Is it not you that’s trying to have it both ways.
    Islam’s stated aim is world domination – you don’t
    have to look far to see this.

    Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East . Its
    population is between 30 – 40 % Arab who are well
    represented in the Knesset. Everything was starting to go fine until the intifada. Many arabs in Gaza had jobs
    across the border. The Mayor of Jerusalem was an Arab – this could never happen in an Arab state.

    1000,000 Jews were expelled in the clothes they stood up in from Arab states that they had lived in for centuries in 1948. They had only one place to go. So Arabs are free to live in Israel but Jews are not allowed in Muslim states except in tiny numbers.

    • “The Mayor of Jerusalem was an Arab”

      Poppycock. You don’t know what you’re talking about and I couldn’t give a hoot so don’t even bother.

    • The population of Israel is about twenty per cent Arab. They are underrepresented in the Knesset and even more so in Israeli governments. They are discriminated against in all sorts of ways, notably in housing and government spending. You obviously know little to nothing about Israel, so quit pontificating on the subject.

  22. Hate groups and their financiers claim that they are against “Islamism” and not Muslims. Yet no matter how much they obfuscate their racial hatred and ethnocentrism, the result of their campaigns produces the fruits of racial tensions as in the above video.

    I see. So some Pakistani dirtbag was forced by Pam Geller to come to a demo, to get up on a soapbox, and to then blame opposition to the mosque on “Jews and Zionists”.

    His Jew-hatred comes right from the heart and needs no provocation whatsoever. He wouldn’t miss an opportunity to express anti-semitic sentiments and probably does so all the time.

    Muslim youth are taught hate right from the get-go, ( videos of their indoctrination abound) and their irresistable desire to display that hate is a behavioral/moral defect that Mosque opponents will deftly exploit to their advantage.

    I suggest you bring several like him to every pro-islamist/fascist mosque rally so that all of America can see Islamism for the retarded, hate-filled ideology it is.

    And since Robert Spencer IS an Arab, I think it highly unlikely he’s promoting “ethnic” hatred.

    “The Mayor of Jerusalem was an Arab”

    Poppycock. You don’t know what you’re talking about and I couldn’t give a hoot so don’t even bother

    You appear quite unable to process facts that won’t dovetail with all your soft racism and bigotry.

    Three cheers for Israel!

    • When was the mayor of Jerusalem under Israeli rule an Arab?

      • These poor guy are brainwashed, but their naivety and lack of scrutiny always sets them backwards. Because USA has Obama, they will be shocked their “freedom loving” friends never appointed a person of Arabic origin as mayor of all Jerusalem.

        By the time they realise the evil and mean-spirited people they have been mixing with, it will probably be too late with plenty of other stupids waiting to repeat the same mistakes.

        Man Is Arraigned in Anti-Muslim Stabbing of Cabdriver
        http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/cabbie-attacked/?hp
        “Mr. Enright is a volunteer with Intersections International, a nonprofit that works to promote cross-cultural understanding and has spoken out in favor of the proposed Islamic cultural center near ground zero. ”

        Very weird.

      • I could be mixed up about this but I thought it was
        Amin Al Majaj up to 1999
        and Faisal Abdul Qader Al Husseini in 2001.
        Maybe someone could help me here.

        Maybe they were just leaders of the Muslim’s in
        the Knesset but does even this not say a lot about
        democracy in Israel

      • Apparently there is a titular Palestinian mayor of East Jerusalem, although the position is not recognised by Israel.

  23. Apparently there is a titular Palestinian mayor of East Jerusalem, although the position is not recognised by Israel.

    Even at that, he’s obtained much more than a Jew ever could as an official, titular or not, in a Muslim country.

    • Wrong again, June! Your bigoted assumptions again collide with reality.

      http://www.loebtree.com/serge.html

    • Don’t make a tittle of yourself, June. The Palestinians choose their own mayor and it has nothing to do with what Charles was asked about when he made his bizarre assertion.

      • Tom 2 Anything wrong about choosing your own mayor – ie the one you want ????????????

    • June: Even at that, he’s obtained much more than a Jew ever could as an official, titular or not, in a Muslim country.

      Keeping “aliens” at a distance whether by policial or physical isolation must be a monumental achoevement by certain lot.

  24. Tom 2 – Are Arabs allowed representation in the Knesset ???????? Are Jews allowed any representation in the Goverment of any Muslim country
    ?????????

    • Yes, there is a seat reserved for the Jews in the Iranian Majils.

      • Bill
        One seat ? in one country – sounds like democracy to me. Remember about 200,000 Jews were expelled
        from Iran and their assets confiscated.

  25. YOU LIBERALS – AMINDINEJAD SUPPORTERS
    Bill and all you other great Liberals out there letting others fight your battles while you swan about in a free CHRISTIAN society :-

    “An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.” – Winston Churchill.

    But it all boils down to one thing – who can give eternal
    life – Jesus or Mohammed. This is what the whole
    argument is about although we try to hide it.

    I know who I am going to believe on my deathbed.

    The Muslims think Jesus is a minor prophet whereas we believe he was the Son of God who because he suffered a gruesome substitutionary punishment can
    cancel out our filthy sins before an awesome and Holy God .

    There is a high conversion rate from Muslims to Christianity since they are sons of Abraham who believe in God . Jesus is saving lots of Muslims right
    now.

    TOM 2 – probably sitting back in your nice American house – eating the best food – where were the MILLION
    Jews supposed to go when they were kicked out of the
    Arab states with only the clothes they stood up in – businesses confiscated.

    Have you ever lost your house and business or seen
    your family annihilated in the gas chambers. One Jew
    who was chosen to bury the bodies came across his
    wife and children – could you imagine that .

    Another one in Glasgow where I come from walked beside his children and wife into the gas chambers but was hauled aside as a death camp worker. He was one of a few who escaped from a camp but when his new wife died was found floating in the Clyde in 1989 . His sons said he never got over it – he just put
    on a show .

    ISRAEL IS THE SIZE OF WALES and the Arabs took
    no interest in it until the jews made it successful.
    The Jews were given about 20% of the land and the Arabs 80% in Jordan by Churchill.

    Have a look at he 2nd world war coverage of little children being smashed against walls or smashed in the head by spades – this is what Amidinejad wants to do – he is the HAMAN of the 21st century and will be
    “hoist with his own petard”

    The Brits liberated the land – the Turks had held it for
    hundreds of years. Athough to give America credit
    they quite rightly stopped the Brits from starting another
    holocaust by breaking their promises.

    As far as I am aware Jerusalem is not mentioned once
    in the KORAN but correct me if I am wrong.

    Rest sweetly in your delusions since its all going to happen again.

  26. See the new you tube on Barak before it is wiped.

  27. You’re so wrong it would be a full-time job to correct you.

  28. TOM 2 – If Amindinejad took over Israel – what would he do with the Jews ???? Give them lovely homes and
    food like the Americans – you are so liberal you would
    let the crocodile eat you first .

    To quote Lenin ” are you one of Amindinejad’s useful
    idiots” ????? Not meant as an insult by the way – just
    to highlight your the depth of naivety that Liberals can
    descend to.

    If the Pope had not decided to fight the Muslim invasion
    of Europe at Vienna ( The Christians Won ) there would not even be an America. Enjoy your lifestyle just now .

    • The Pope? Actually, it was the Habsburgs whose country had been invaded. And America had already been “discovered” by then. Seriously, Charles, educate yourself. These half-assed, ill informed posts are only discrediting yourself and your cause, whatever it is.

  29. Tom2 – No you would not let the crocodile eat you first
    you would disappear and let someone else take on the crocodile – then when he killed it you would accuse
    him of cruelty.

  30. You are right – America had already been “discovered”
    but what would that mean if the Muslims had conquered Europe – which they nearly did. America
    was financed and run by the UK and Europe after it was “discovered”.
    Being “discovered” changes nothing.
    America was discovered by the Vikings – so what .
    It was the Pope and Catholic kings and also Lutherians who organised the defence of Vienna.

    Or your country would still be inhabited by the native
    Indians and run by Muslims.

    • Historical counterfactuals are usually a waste of time, but consider that:

      1. If the Turks hadn’t been stopped at Vienna they would have been stopped somewhere else. Europe was filled with armies and fortifications, and the fall of Vienna would not have led to the conquest of Europe by the Ottoman Empire, already declining.

      2. Even if the Turks had conquered all of Europe, that would not necessarily have led to the conquest of Britain, which had a navy far more suited for northern waters than anything the Turks had.

      3. If the Turks had conquered Europe and Britain, America would have filled up with Christian refugees and would have proclaimed its independence as a Christian country about a century earlier. The Turks had absolutely nothing that could have extended their power across the Atlantic. So thanks to the Turkish defeat at Vienna, America had to wait another hundred years for independence.

      • Bill what fantasy – the Turkish empire had boats and men that could easily have conquered Europe. The
        option was that if you did not convert to Mohammed was beheading – so again you are in cloud cuckoo land and also disgracing your ancestors.

        The TURKS had plenty of boatsand men that could extend across the Atlantic.

        Are you trying to say you relied on the Pope to get
        you out the mess you were in – which was basically
        believe in Mohammed or be be beheaded.

        Goodbye America – but I pray not..

      • BILL
        So the turks would have been stopped somewhere else ?????? where ????? what a get out clause, The
        Turks had a an incredible army – who else would have stopped them – some Catholics again I suppose .

        This is fantasy protestanism history.

  31. Bill – Pope Innocentius X1 regarded the the defence
    of Vienna in 1683 as one of his greatest achievements . The Habsburgs were part of the then Holy Roman Empire.
    Don’t worry you would not get much of this in an American school . Or that there is an Arab mayor
    of Jerusalem who Ehud Barak used to consult with.
    I don’t expect Americans to know a great deal about
    European History – I went to school with them.

  32. Are you seriously arguing that the Turks would have defeated the armies of Louis XIV? If the Turks could have “easily conquered Europe” they wouldn’t have been stopped at Vienna.

    And of course, the Ottoman Empire was full of Christians who were not beheaded for not converting to Islam. Read a book, Charles.

  33. And of course, the Ottoman Empire was full of Christians who were not beheaded for not converting to Islam. Read a book, Charles

    The Ottomans committed genocide against Balkan and other Orthodox Christinas.Millions were murdered, and the Armenian genocide, far from being unique, was actually just the last of a whole series of similar atrocities carried out by The Turks.

  34. Bill – you mean all that trouble in Vienna was a complete waste of time – what a shame you were not there to advise the Pope and the Viennese to surrender .

    The Ottoman Empire was not known for its kindness
    – ask an Arab. This is why much of the Balkans became muslim – they were offered beheading or conversion. Read a book Bill.

    The Armenian genocide that June refers to above was one of the worst against mainly Christians that I have ever read. Hitler mentioned it to demonstrate that
    the NAZIS could get away with anything and it would soon be forgotten.

    Book a month’s holiday in Afganistan but don’t bother
    about the return ticket.

    • Have you noticed that the Balkans and Hungary are in fact, full of Christians, with Muslim minorities in a few places here and there?

      Now Latin America, there was a place of conversion or death!

      I’m getting bored with this, and I imagine Bartholomew is as well. You may have the last word, if you so desire.

  35. LAST WORD – OK
    Read about the Ottoman empire. Forced prostitution
    slavery torture forced conversion etc.

    Latin America – the Incas and Aztecs were sacrificing
    up to thousands of men women and children a day – their hearts ripped out still beating. Cortez was horrified and with only 300 men gave the Native leaders their due. Good old Cortez..

    Your probably getting bored with your own naivety

    Now you have appeared to have elected a Muslim president – enjoy !

  36. GOOGLE UP – Australian islamist monitor for a start

    • Stop asking me non-sequitur questions and attributing views, nationalities and God knows what else to me. You weegie pensioner fruitcake that you are.

  37. BILL – very last word to you I hope –
    What an intelligent reply from a liberal – your description of me would suit you far more accurately.
    “weegie pensioner fruitcake ” ????????

  38. Charles Allan is right. Bill ought to read a book.

    The last groups of Christians ( Greeks) were brutally kicked out of Instanbul in the 1950s. tjheir economic performance, their wealth and their high levels of education made them objects of jealously on the part of the more mediocre Turks, and so the Turks had a tmpeer tantrum killled hundreds of Greeks, burned their business and confiscated their property.

    And the of course there’s the illegal trurkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974 and the cleansing of Greeks from the north of the Island.

  39. […] “Geller Slams “Half-Assed” NY Anti-Mosque Protest where Black American was Misiden… (barthsnotes.com) […]

  40. […] House Scrubs Terry Jones "Islam is of the Devil" BookK. A. Paul Joins the Gainesville CircusGeller Slams "Half-Assed" NY Anti-Mosque Protest where Black American was Misidentified as Muslim an…Hastert on KA Paul: “I Do Not Know the […]

  41. typical liberal left (satanic) lies, these articles are all the same. demonize the right, sham its participates, give little to no credit to their numbers or strength, make its participates into nuts (so no one pays attention to them), spin the truth to make it slant to the wished liberal outcome, lie to the masses for your cause, spin the polls, downplay the number of supporters, turn it into a joke (when it wasn’t). WE KNOW ALL YOUR TRICKS BY NOW. THEY ARE THE ONES USED BY ALL CROOKS, CRIMINALS, EVIL DOERS, AND SATAN HIMSELF. WE ARE NOT FOOLED AND WE DO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR VENOM. DO WHAT YOU WANT YOU WILL NOT CHANGE US OR THE FACTS WHICH WE WILL COVER DESPITE YOUR DECEPTION. THE TRUTH AND RIGHTEOUS WILL WIN, THE END OF THE BOOK HAS ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN AND READ… WE KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN AND IT WILL NOT GO WELL FOR YOU SATAN’S MESSENGERS/WORKERS. GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL, NOT MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY TO DO SATAN’S WORK. DISCREDIT US ALL YOU WANT, THIS LIFE IS BUT A SECOND COMPARED TO ETERNITY WHICH IS WHERE YOU REALLY WANT TO CONCERN YOURSELF. WE WILL BE OK, ON THE OTHER HAND YOUR FUTURE IS QUESTIONABLE. THIS LIFE MEANS NOTHING TO US, THIS MILLISECOND LIFE IS EVERYTHING TO YOU……….. BIG MISTAKE, WAKE UP BEFORE ITS TOO LATE. YOUR ETERNAL FUTURE DEPENDS ON IT.

  42. […] also gave a speech at the anti-mosque rally in New York on 22 August (the one that took place the week before Pamela Geller’s effort, and which Geller initially condemned as […]

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