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Grim Reaper Backs EDL

EDL Reaper

The above picture shows one of the leaders of the English Defence League, delivering a speech in Leeds on Saturday.  His face is apparently obscured as he fears Muslim vengance (that was his explanation on Newsnight recently), although he promises us that Anjem Choudary will not be allowed to take over the UK. The Israeli flag has been seen at other EDL events; it represents a vicarious identification with Israel in its various conflicts.

Video here.

21 Responses

  1. Maybe he has a point – it was only 5 years ago that Mohamed Bouyeri slaughtered Theo van Gogh on an Amsterdam street for daring to show verses from the Koran projected onto the bare flesh of half-naked women.

    In a democracy, freedom of speech must prevail, even if that speech is offensive. We have seen that not only Anjem Choudary’s bunch of bozo supporters are averse to criticisms of Islam.

    You may choose to ridicule this person, Richard, but you defended Tim Ireland from threats of attack. I have had death threats, as well as a year-long campaign of malicious cyber-stalking, based upon what I wrote on the subject of Islamism. The police couldn’t give a damn.

    This person does not have political influence, nor the intellectual confidence to express himself in the press/media/blogosphere. All that is left to such people in today’s non-representative political environment is to demonstrate. As long as he is demonstrating, and not engaged in threats or attacks upon Muslims, he should – in a free society – be allowed that right.

    Maybe you should try to be a little more balanced in the way you treat people’s fears of attack. Such threats are designed to silence people, and cases like Theo van Gogh effectively silence a whole society.

    Bullies are often cowards, and given power, cowards often become bullies.

    Please feel free to similarly condemn the cowardly bullies of Al Muhajiroun, many of whose members – in like manner – cover their heads and faces with keffiyehs on their demonstrations.

    You may not like the EDL, but if you are trying to make a point based on a position of adopting the moral high ground, please do not allow your partiality and prejudices to obscure attempts to present facts fairly.

    If your subject matter and presentation were genuinely fair and balanced, then you would naturally occupy the moral high ground and your posts would automatically radiate that moral authority.

  2. I’d be less sceptical if he hadn’t encouraged an 18-year-old “EDL Youth” leader to appear with him on Newsnight without a balaclava. I try not to misrepresent people – I avoid using “neo-Nazi” and “fascist” labels, for instance – but if something appears to be bizarre I sometimes say so.

    Of course I acknowledge the reality of Islamic extremist attempts to suppress free speech through intimidation.

    • In your link, you refer to the Salman Rushdie affair, where you acknowledge that threats took place two decades ago. You then give three examples of threat that you consider to be fake.

      That does not convince me that you do take people’s fears seriously, unless they happen to agree with you politically. As you know, I do not share Tim Ireland’s political outlook, but I certainly do not want to see him (or anyone) threatened by anybody..

      I admit I have no sympathy for Al Muhajiroun when their fear of “threats” caused them to call off their Halloween Trick or Treat session – Abdul Muhid has called for gays to be thrown off cliffs, Choudary has jeered the death of Lance Corporal Jabron Hashmi, hurting his family, he has made death threats against those who “insult Islam” – including threatening Benedict XVI, Abu Izzadeen has threatened British Muslim soldiers by saying that they should be decapitated. I see it as karmic that Al Muhajiroun should feel intimidated when their own tactics are turned on their own.

      But when people who make no threats are themselves threatened for holding a belief or for expressing a personal opinion, it is a serious issue.

      If the 18-year old youth is old enough to drink, to marry, to own property, drive a car and vote, that youth should be able to decide for himself whether he protects his identity or not.

      I personally think people should be open wherever possible, but if they feel – for whatever reason – that they do not want to be attacked later, they should have the right to disguise their identities.

      I did not see the Newsnight piece where any 18-year old youths was “encouraged” (co-erced?) to display his identity. I must have missed that edition.

      • That does not convince me that you do take people’s fears seriously, unless they happen to agree with you politically.

        I also mentioned the Bishop of Rochester (whom I criticise here) and Theo van Gogh (about whom I share David Aaronovitch’s views). My views on free speech more generally can be seen here.

        By the way, I don’t think Al Muhajiroun cancelled out of fear. Choudray prefers to boast of imagined “thousands” who supposedly would have shown up, than have an actual march with just two dozen or so followers.

  3. Encouraging others to do the dirty work and take the risks, while keeping themselves safe, would appear to be a recurring theme amongst some of the EDL leadership.

  4. We can understand why some refuse to be identified. As you may recall one of our organisers had a recent article written on him in a main stream daily paper which had no truth in it. He asked for no pictures in that article for the safety of his family. A photo taken on the night of the interview was however taken and used on the night of the so called interview, this photo was taken with out the knowledge of this organiser. This has resulted in attacks on his property , abuse and insults to him and family members of his.
    March for England has always tried to be open and never hid behind masks, however that is why we now only have one person willing to stand in front of cameras and give interviews as the damage has been done.
    Its a shame we face such threats and fear , so we understand the concerns of those keeping identity concealed. So much for freedom of speach.

  5. These EDL chaps are comedy gold, they really are, you couldn’t make them up.

  6. Re: the non-event by Al-Mudge on Saturday.

    An interesting argument. It is certainly plausible, but Choudary was able to get quite a few henchmen to back him up and intimidate women at Conway Hall on June 18.

    I think that something scared them off – even if not his own fears, the fears of the potential “thousands” from across the country whom he hoped would arrive to support him.

    Choudary did hold an alternative meeting in Walthamstow (where he has a support base regularly appearing in the market).

    I have seen on discussion boards the suggestion that he was told by mainstream “political Islam” representatives not to appear but I find that hard to believe.

    I met Yvonne Ridley recently – who is considered Islamist but “within boundaries” – and she was as contemptuous of Al Mudge as she was of EDL. Choudary embarrasses all Muslims, no matter their beliefs.

    I think Choudary operates according to the agenda of his associates and his leader – Omar Bakri Mohammed. Bakri himself is a coward – he spoke in 2004 that it was acceptable to bomb non-Muslim civilians, and even justified the theoretical kidnapping of children. When war broke out in Lebanon, Bakri showed his own terror of bombs by begging to be allowed to return to the UK.

    The fruit never falls too far from the tree. I think that Choudary is a coward – like Bakri.

    If you are right – and your case is credible – it has shown just how great an error of judgement Choudary has made regarding his home-grown support.

    And for that, Muslim and kaffir alike should celebrate.

    • Ray is like Choudary: cowardly/bully, fanatical, chasing vainglory, lets other do the punching – but then takes the credit for a ‘win.’

      Nowhere to be seen if things go sour, passed blame.

      • well said b4 I go

        Paul Ray is simply a caucasian Mad Mullah sans the attractive ethnic clothing.

  7. I have had death threats, as well as a year-long campaign of malicious cyber-stalking, based upon what I wrote on the subject of Islamism. The police couldn’t give a damn.

    But it’s the edvangelicals we should watch out for. And ever notice how those ‘transgressive artists’ only ever stick it to Christianity?

    D. Aaronovitch’s 2004 article on Theo Van Gogh is appalling, as though he were suggestion Van Gogh was responsable for his own death. Reminds me of the days when rape victims were blamed for their own rapes because of the ‘provocative’ clothing there were wearing at the time.

    I read an article by a close friend of Van Gogh and an artist. When he posted the commandment “Thou Shalt not kill” after the murder just outside his door his Muslim neoighbours COMPLAINED that it was islamophobic and the police ordered it taken down. The moral imperiative “Thou Shalt Not Kill”, this basic moral rule, is islamophobic.

    It,s all a moot point now, though, because Geert Wilders is set to become Holland’s next P.M. Such a victory is in large part due to mentalities such as Aaronovitch’s, mentalities that just wallow in abject denial and which therefore create the space in which a far more radical ideas become legitimate.

    The sole option left for traditional political parties is naked repression, a surveilllance society and the criminalisation of legitimate dissent and free expression.

    In short, a eruo-fascism attacking and supressing not ‘the other’ or certain minorities, but rather Europe’s majority-native population.

    Holland’s quivering elites, for example, have decided to put Wilders on trial for hate speech…hilarious!

    The whole 60s paradigm is finished.

  8. I read an article by a close friend of Van Gogh and an artist. When he posted the commandment “Thou Shalt not kill” after the murder just outside his door his Muslim neoighbours COMPLAINED that it was islamophobic and the police ordered it taken down.
    It was a mural and it was painted on a wall within view of a mosque – it was the mosque’s iman who complained.
    I can understand his anger. In the very tense days after the murder Muslims all over Holland were being targeted by hate gangs. So it may well have looked like the artist was deliberately aiming the message at the mosque and implying that worshippers there had something to do with the murder.

  9. I can understand his anger.

    Did he express any anger about Van Gogh’s death?

    No.

    Your ‘understanding’ is the kind of ‘understanding’ that kills because you obviously do not understand the true nature of the imam’s rage at all. An unbeliever NEVER reproaches a believer when a co-believer has killed an unbeliever.

    Believe me.

    And no doubt like so many other degraded leftists you blame Van Gogh for his own beheading.

    Your myopia and tender compassionate ‘understanding’ are responsable for te rise of the Far Right all across Europe.

    Can you understand that?

  10. Well said June.

    Some people cannot help projecting their leftist prejudices onto anything they come across – and in the poisoned climate that they create, the far right extremists will have a field day.

  11. And in case any self-righteous luvvies descend to spout meaningless dogma – I advise that they firstly look up the term “takfir” or “takfeer” which is the principle of denouncement – originally used as a reason to overthrow rulers (as when the Abassids overthrew the Ummayads – even digging up the bodies of previous “unIslamic@”Ummayad rulers.

    For example the body of Hisham (724-43) was found virtually intact in its grave – he was lashed 120 times, then crucified (rectally impaled) and then burned to ashes – effectively denying his body a chance of being allowed resurrection.

    And to understand more, look up the term “Kharijites” or “Khawarij”. This sect , which assisted in the destruction of the Ummmayad dynasty rulers, made a point of declaring their enemies as apostates, and some groups insisted that their members prove themselves by slitting the throats of captives.

    Ali, cousin and son-in-law of Mohammed, was murdered by a Kharijite, an act which led to the Shia-Sunni split.

    The Kharijites were dangerous and murderous fanatics, feared by all. They established a base at Basra in the 8th and 9th centuries.

    Since their day, it has been regarded as bad form to denounce any other Muslim as a “bad Muslim”. Osama bin Laden’s actions are often condemned, but never his person as a Muslim.

  12. >blockquote>Well said June.

    Some people cannot help projecting their leftist prejudices onto anything they come across – and in the poisoned climate that they create, the far right extremists will have a field day.

    Thank-you Adrian

    Yeah, the degenerate left is given a soapbox to spout its poisoned views and in the process stimulates Far Right extremism.

    Your exposé about Hisham, the Kharijites and takfir is instructive.

  13. EDL employs Osama Bin Laden tactic. Send the peasants to war, while they stay in blush hotels with many girlfriends.

  14. So now people who choose to voice what are no more than feelings of frustration are likened to terrorists who go out and commit mass murder?

    Is it me, or is there a serious problem with people’s comprehension of facts, or their sense of proportion?

    Or are the far lefties so insecure that anyone who does not agree with their complacent views must be demonised as being either like a) Nazi stormtroopers or b) Islamists – especially when the EDL see themselves as opposed to both groups.

    Of course, the far leftists have read about dialectical materialism, so they are our intellectual superiors, and can perfectly analyse social events and the real-but-latent intentions of others.

    Sheesh…..

  15. Or are the far lefties so insecure that anyone who does not agree with their complacent views must be demonised as being either like a) Nazi stormtroopers or b) Islamists – especially when the EDL see themselves as opposed to both groups

    The Left arethe fascists. For instance, the fact Labour imported millions of immigrants in an effort to radically re-engineer and alter the nature of British society according to a warped ideology and without any consultation of the population is perhaps the most fascist thing that can be done to a country.

  16. Out country is completly bonkers – you can march int he uk agains radical islam without anti fascists protesting against you. Is begger beleife . Why dont the UAF march against slam 4 uk or other radical groups? Probably because the funders (i.e the top parties) are not telling them to.

    Many of the ELD are not just thugs, many are ex servicemen returning home seeing the areas they live in totally transformed by immigration by the most fascist type. Islam is fascist, can you take a bible to mecca, can you open a church in mecca, can you dress as a woman how you like in mecca? No then why should they impose their laws to us? Islam, one god, one view, one world. We forget that the other main religions only want 1 state for their religion, Islam wants and demand the planet to be Islamic. Even moderate muslims have to follow the Koran, its not a like Christianity where its modified to appease the masses – the the Koran was or no way.

    Can you pick one Islamic dominated country you would be happy living in? If not, without people willing to stand up for what thy want to preserve you will be in one before you know it.

    Well done lefties, you have totally screwed up the country I love and there is no going back. Thanks a bunch.

  17. Err Malaysia was very nice. (And that has the largest population of Muslims on Earth)

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