Well, that didn’t last long. A statement has appeared on the EDL Facebook page:
The English Defense League wish to correct a falsehood that is being propagated by the international media: we did not invite Terry Jones to speak at any EDL event, he approached us and we agreed in principle but we have since taken an indepth look at him and his church.
Talk of the “media” propagating a “falsehood” is transparent bluster – the issue is that the EDL was “proud to announce” Jones as a “guest speaker”, not whose idea it was. And even if the detail is incorrect, the EDL needs to blame Jones, who maintains that he was invited. The statement continues:
Terry Jones won international notoriety by threatening to burn the Koran. We believe firmly in upholding the principles of free speech and free expression, and believe that he should have been free to do so, and protected by law enforcement authorities from those who would have tried to harm or kill him had he done so.
At the same time, we strongly disapprove of burning the Koran, precisely because we believe in those principles of free speech and free expression. We do not believe the Koran should be burned, but rather read, so that people come to understand its inherent violence, supremacism, and hatred and contempt for non-Muslims. It is essential that people know what the Koran teaches, so they can see how far its teachings are from the free traditions of England that we have pledged our lives to uphold and defend.
Once again, the notion of the EDL supposedly having no problem with “moderate” Muslims is shown up as a farce: from the above, the only “moderate” Muslim would be one who repudiates the Koran. Further:
The English Defence League has made it clear in previous press statements that it has a great deal of sympathy with some of the views and opinions of Pastor Terry Jones specifically related to Islamic Extremism. We share similar concerns with him regarding extreme Islam, shariah law and of course the Qu’ran. We are also deeply concerned over his personal targeting by the home secretary, Theresa May, with respect to a possible U.K. banning order. These issues notwithstanding, we still have some reservations about Pastor Jones and we do not agree with all of his opinions or indeed all he stands for.
The EDL is extremely proud of its diverse support base including it’s primary base of geographical divisions from all across England encompassing much ethnic diversity. In addition we have specific divisions drawn from groups particularly threatened by encroaching Sharia: a Lesbian Gay Bisexual & Transgender (LGBT) Division; a Jewish Division and recently a Pakistani Christian Division. The EDL also enjoys the active participation and support of many former members of the Armed Forces. In light of our strong commitment to these groups and some of the Pastor’s statements and associations, we feel it inappropriate to offer Pastor Terry Jones an invitation to attend an EDL demonstration.
The EDL can confirm that Pastor Jones will not be attending the English Defence League demonstration against sharia in Luton on 5 February. We wish him success in his efforts to oppose the rise of sharia in the United States and thank him for his interest in the EDL.
There follows a link to a CBS report about Westboro Baptist Church picketing a soldier’s funeral – Jones has made links with the Phelps clan. According to a report in the Guardian:
EDL spokesman Guramit Singh said the decision had been taken after the group carried out “further research” on Jones and discovered he held some “homophobic and racist” views.
This evening Jones, a pentecostal preacher who runs the Dove World Outreach Centre in Gainesville, Florida, denied he was homophobic or racist, adding that the EDL had bowed to pressure from the government and media.
Fran Ingram, one of Jones’s followers, has left a comment under the EDL statement, expressing displeasure:
Last thing I expected, the edl backing out! God have mercy on England.
But Jones has found some new friends in the UK. According to the Dove World Outreach Center website:
The English Defence League has withdrawn its invitation to have Dr. Terry Jones speak at their rally in Luton, UK on February 5, because of pressure from special interest groups.
Dr. Jones has now been invited to speak and hold rallies with the National Front, as well as with the British National Front and has accepted these invitations.
The “National Front” is the same thing as the “British National Front”; perhaps in the latter case Jones means the “British National Party”. In any case, both parties are unquestionably hardcore far-right, although the BNP these days tries to create a veneer of distance from its racist origins. According to an NF website (banner: “the party of White family values”):
Andy Gray, East Mildands [sic] NF organizer has announced that following the utter cave in by the EDL and the withdrawal of their invitation to Pastor Terry Jones of the American Dove Outreach ministry to address an EDL event planned in Luton, the National Front have stepped into the gap and openly invited Jones to attend an event to be organized by the NF instead. (1)
A second posting adds that the NF has “just received a reply from Dr Terry Jones in which he expresses his delight at being invited”.
(1)eastmidlandsnf.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/nf-invites-terry-jones-as-edl-backs-out/
UPDATE: Darcy Jones notes a Daily Star article on how the EDL had “snubbed” Pastor Jones and declared that his “offer” was “inappropriate”. There is no mention of how the EDL had formerly announced that it was “proud” to announce Jones’ participation, or of Jones’ claim that he had been invited.
UPDATE 2: The next day, the National Front explained that:
It now appears that Dr Terry Jones will not be attending an event in the UK after all. It seems that following the EDL canceling his engagement and subsequent alterations to his international itinerary the UK will probably not feature in his list of engagements.
It is also suspected that diplomatic representations to the US may have had some bearing on him ‘changing his mind’.
Jones, meanwhile, has quietly removed his post on the subject.
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Just as soon as you find a moderate copy of the Koran (you know, one with the nasty bits that are taken as direct instruction on how to behave TODAY completely expunged) that is considered valid by all the major schools of Islamic Jurisprudence, then we’ll find some real moderate Muslims.
In the meantime I have to go and feed my Unicorn.
[…] Bartholomew’s Notes on Religion – English Defence League Dumps Terry Jones: Jones Accepts Ne… […]
What Brian of London said.
What is Terry JOnes compared to inbred dirtbags like Qaradawi and countless thousands of other bigoted, racist, illiterate Muslim “scholars”.
“Just as soon as you find a moderate copy of the Koran (you know, one with the nasty bits that are taken as direct instruction on how to behave TODAY completely expunged) that is considered valid by all the major schools of Islamic Jurisprudence, then we’ll find some real moderate Muslims.”
Take out the bits on how to behave today? You mean take away the teachings about freedom of religion? Protecting the weak? Healthcare? Justice? I’m pretty sure everyone in this country lives by those rules, whether they know that they are part of Islamic Sharia or not. Besides, ae you going to call for the same thing when it comes to the Christian and Jeiwsh texts? Surely you must know that Israeli Rabbis have issued a fatwa banning selling or renting to Arabs and black people because the Jewish texts dont allow that since, according to them, a Jew is better than God? Or does that kind of stuff not count? What about the fight against homosxuality and abortion? Or does that not count?
“What is Terry JOnes compared to inbred dirtbags like Qaradawi and countless thousands of other bigoted, racist, illiterate Muslim “scholars”.”
No different. That’s the point. And there are no more fundie Imams than their are fundies like Jones and fundie Rabbis.
Take out the bits on how to behave today? You mean take away the teachings about freedom of religion? Protecting the weak? Healthcare? Justice? I’m pretty sure everyone in this country lives by those rules, whether they know that they are part of Islamic Sharia or not.
You are priceless, dumplin’!
Yes, and we are all *really*, *really*, *REALLY* Muslims; we just don’t know it yet!
And progressive social democracy is *really*, *really*, *REALLY* just…well…sharia!
You are soooo smart! How did you ever figure it out!?!
And there’s no place like a religious-apartheid state such as Saudi Arabia, home to Islam’s two “holiest” shrines, to experience unlimited religious freedom…and unparalelled healthcare!
That,s why some old fart of a “king” who heads this repulsive hole is in New York seeking medical treatment.
It’s also why hypocritical old arts like Qaradawi come to England for healthcare after having spent their entire lives venting their spleen about us filthy, impure Kuffurs.
Islam is hopelessly backward, utterly parasitic, and constitutes nothing less than a millstone around humanity’s neck.
Were it not for us filthy Kuffurs providing the financial means and billions in foreign aid, whole swaths of the islamic world would be gripped by mass famine because Muslims no longer grow enough food to feed themselves, and indeed haven’t been able to do so in over 30 years.
So we have the thankless task of feeding this “constituency”, all the while having to endure its endless predations, like the one we saw last Saturday in Sweden.
This great Western Civilizations you infer to where built largely on the backs of Black exploitation and with the enforced occupation of the mid east and the usurpation of its resources.
Funny you talk about Saudi Arabia and its King when they are the biggest allies of the US in the region. Fat lot of good your operation freedom bombs do for Iraq and Afghanistan when the backward Mysogynists are in bed with you.
Where it not for the “filthy Kuffars” much of the mid-east would still be secular and progressive – as it was in the 70s. After all no one helped the Bin Ladens of the world more than the freedom loving west.
“You are priceless, dumplin’!
Yes, and we are all *really*, *really*, *REALLY* Muslims; we just don’t know it yet!
And progressive social democracy is *really*, *really*, *REALLY* just…well…sharia!
You are soooo smart! How did you ever figure it out!?!”
Priceless toss. Everytime an Islamophobe is stumped they come up with this pretend-crazy-rant. Is it too much to expect to… ahh, screw it.
“And there’s no place like a religious-apartheid state such as Saudi Arabia, home to Islam’s two “holiest” shrines, to experience unlimited religious freedom…and unparalelled healthcare!”
Yep, saudiland is an apartheid state. If it were up to me the House of Saud would be kicked out onto the streets without any of our armies protecting them so that they could be made to pay for the atrocities they have committed. They took over Arabia, murdering 100s of 1000s of Muslims, massacring them, destroying Muslim holy places and then claiming it all for themselves. The recent Wikileaks cables support all of my suspicions about them: huge, drink and drug feulled sex parties behind closed doors while they keep the Muslim public under their thumb with the Vice police and the Western soldiers backing them up. Anyone that dares stand up, disappears or is just beheaded. That;s the kind of people we support. They are the biggest financiers of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, yet we support them and our leaders kiss them on the lips. They aren;t any better than Israel and I have nothing but contempt for the House of Saud. I can;t wait for the day they are finally overthrown.
“Islam is hopelessly backward, utterly parasitic, and constitutes nothing less than a millstone around humanity’s neck.”
Much like Christianity and Judaism then. Unless ofcoure you view raping 3 year olds and committing genocide progress.
“Were it not for us filthy Kuffurs providing the financial means and billions in foreign aid, whole swaths of the islamic world would be gripped by mass famine because Muslims no longer grow enough food to feed themselves, and indeed haven’t been able to do so in over 30 years.”
Dont flatter yourself. There is more than enough food in Muslim countries. In fact, there are such varietis of dishes, your ind would be unable to comprehend them, let alone survive the tastes. We don;t support the uslims, we support the dictators that are friendly to us. And then when the Muslims that are then oppressed by those dictators, find out that we are supplying them with weapons and money to keep the oppression going, they attack us. And we blame them instead of the dictators that we support.
[…] withdrawn by the EDL and has now been invited to Britain by the National Front instead. As Richard Bartholomew reports, this was after a media storm led the EDL to ‘reconsider’ his invite and withdraw it on […]
This great Western Civilizations you infer to where built largely on the backs of Black exploitation and with the enforced occupation of the mid east and the usurpation of its resources.
Actually Arsha, Western Civilisation was built by hard working, disciplined and enlightened Europeans.
Europe IS Western Civlisation and Europe never imported a slave class of blacks. Clever chaps like Copernicus would have no use for one.
Western Civilisation is THE BEST Nothing before in human history even comes close to its achievements and its brilliance.
It shows up the islamic world for the collection of backward nutjobs it is.
Dont flatter yourself. There is more than enough food in Muslim countries. In fact, there are such varietis of dishes, your ind would be unable to comprehend them, let alone survive the tastes
Sorry EJ, but the muslim world is unable to feed itself…it’s just that backward.
And it’s also running out of fresh water because people won’t stop breeding. Iraq, Turkey and Syria will soon be having a dust-up over the waters of the Tirgris and Euphrates, and Egypt and the Sudan will soon be going at it with Ethiopia because Ethiopia is home to the Blue Nile and therefore has tyhe right to most of its waters.
And yet the brilliant Jews of Israel are also running out of water! Its almost as if there’s a finite amount of water no matter which religion you are!
And BTW, June, Hitler was as much a part of Western Civilization as was Copernicus, (whose astronomy drew on that of Muslim al-Tusi and the Maragha astronomers, not that I expect you to have heard of them). Or have you decided the Fuhrer was actually a Muslim?
“Actually Arsha, Western Civilisation was built by hard working, disciplined and enlightened Europeans.”
Ofcourse, Islamophobes do not like to acknowldge the role of Islam and Muslims in the Renaissance. After the Christians massacred and kicked out the Muslims and Jews from Spain, taking it back for Jesus, the knowledge of Muslim Spain spread and was taking by the people that fled the Christian persecution and genocide known as the Inquisition to the rest of Europe. It was Muslim Spains’, and by extension the Muslim worlds’ incredible advances in technology, sciencea and literature that made the Renaissance possible.
“Western Civilisation is THE BEST Nothing before in human history even comes close to its achievements and its brilliance.”
Western civilization grew when it kicked out Christianity from making the decisions on where to go. It’s no surprise that when Christiantiy’s and the Church’s power declined during the Industrial revolution, Western countries made great strides forward, instead of stagnating as Europe had done for much of the time Christianity was the government.
“Sorry EJ, but the muslim world is unable to feed itself…it’s just that backward.”
There is more than enough food in the vast majority of Muslim countries. Ofcourse, a lot of countries in Africa suffer from hunger and dehydration, but that is not specific to a particular religion seeing as how it affects Muslims, Christians and Animists.
But we shouldn’t allow that to overshadow the ridiculous argument being presented here: because certain countries are Muslim, they don’t have any food or water. This is the thought of these White Christian Islamophobes: anyone who doesn;t believe in Jesus as Son of God/God, will call God’s wrath on them. Utterly ridiculous argument from June, but Islamophobes do not have the dignity back down or stay out of argument when they lose it.
Giving it to the trots and islamists
http://theenglishdefenceleagueextra.blogspot.com/2010/12/violence-against-edl-at-islamophobia.html
Bill, do you comments always have to be tinged with anti-semitism?
Hilter, dumplin’ was a huge fan os Islam, hated Christianity and even had the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem as his personnal houseguest during WWII.
He also established Muslim Nazi divisions. Hitler’s strategies dovetail with the current actions of the alliance of trots and islamists.
Do you support such an alliance, Bill?
“Hilter, dumplin’ was a huge fan os Islam, hated Christianity and even had the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem as his personnal houseguest during WWII.”
First, some quotes:
”
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…. And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people…. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922
[Note, “brood of vipers” appears in Matt. 3:7 & 12:34. John 2:15 depicts Jesus driving out the money changers (adders) from the temple. The word “adders” also appears in Psalms 140:3] ”
”
In the Bible we find the text, ‘That which is neither hot nor cold will I spew out of my mouth.’ This utterance of the great Nazarene has kept its profound validity until the present day.
-Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich, 10 April 1923
[The Bible quote comes Jesus speaking in Revelation 3:16]”
“A few days ago I was in Eisenach and stood on top of the Wartburg, where a great German once translated the Bible.
-Adolf Hitler, in Schleiz, Thuringia, 18 Jan. 1927
[The great German Hitler speaks about, of course, describes Martin Luther]”
“We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls…. We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity… in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall’s The Holy Reich] ”
“We are determined, as leaders of the nation, to fulfill as a national government the task which has been given to us, swearing fidelity only to God, our conscience, and our Volk…. This the national government will regard its first and foremost duty to restore the unity of spirit and purpose of our Volk. It will preserve and defend the foundations upon which the power of our nation rests. It will take Christianity, as the basis of our collective morality, and the family as the nucleus of our Volk and state, under its firm protection….May God Almighty take our work into his grace, give true form to our will, bless our insight, and endow us with the trust of our Volk.
-Adolf Hitler, on 1 Feb. 1933, addressing the German nation as Chancellor for the first time, Volkischer Beobachter, 5 Aug. 1935, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall’s The Holy Reich]”
“I believe in Providence and I believe Providence to be just. Therefore I believe that Providence always rewards the strong, the industrious, and the upright.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech to National Socialist women at the Nuremberg Parteitag of 1936 [11 Sept. 1936] ”
“But he who dares to use the word “God” for such devilish activity blasphemes against Providence and, according to our belief, he cannot end except in destruction.
-Adolf Hitler, speaking about Jews and international “warmongers,” on 04 May 1941, before the Reichstag ”
“I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)”
“How many of my basic principles were upset by this change in my attitude toward the Christian Social movement!
My views with regard to anti-Semitism thus succumbed to the passage of time, and this was my greatest transformation of all.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)”
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)”
“Certainly we don’t have to discuss these matters with the Jews, the most modern inventors of this cultural perfume. Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord’s image.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)”
“Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord’s grace smiled on His ungrateful children.
-Adolf Hitler reflecting on World War I (Mein Kampf)”
“…we must pray to the Almighty not to refuse His blessing to this change and not to abandon our people in the times to come.
-Hitler recalling a priest’s speech after the defeat of WWI (Mein Kampf)”
“The result of all racial crossing is therefore in brief always the following:
(a) Lowering of the level of the higher race;
(b) Physical and intellectual regression and hence the beginning of a slowly but surely progressing sickness.
To bring about such a development is, then, nothing else but to sin against the will of the eternal creator. And as a sin this act is rewarded.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)”
“…the fall of man in paradise has always been followed by his expulsion.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
(See Genesis Chapter 3)”
Etc. Etc. Etc. So there are numerous accounts of Hitler saying he is Christian and doing what he does for Jesus.
I know Islamophobes like to trot ou the Mufti of Jerusalem. what the Islamophobes do not bother to tell you, is that the Mufti was just one of a large number of religious and political figures that visited Hitler and asked for his support and or to negotiate something with him. The British had reneged on the promise of Lawrence to the Arabs and had divided up the Holy Land instead of allowing the Arabs to live freely with self-determination. In light of that the Mufti asked for Hitler’s support against the British since they had already betrayed the Arabs of Palestine.
But he wasn’t the only figure to have relations with Hitler. We have the Concordat with the Catholic Church. We have numerous priests and church leaders meeting with him, even being asked to give speeches at his rallies.
“He also established Muslim Nazi divisions. Hitler’s strategies dovetail with the current actions of the alliance of trots and islamists.”
Nazi Germany conquered countries that had a huge Muslim population. The Nazis did this all over the world. The Japanese. Are you going to blame Buddhism? India. Are you going to blame Hindus? But what I find incredibly hypocritical is that Islamophobes miss out the largest religion present in the Nazi armies: Christianity! Why were there so many Christians in the Nazi army? surely Christians could not join that cause?
By the way, are you going to tell us about Albania? You know, that largely Muslim country that somehow was able to protect all of its Jewish population, even soaking up and protecting the Jews from the surrounding countries that had fled Christian persecution under Hitler. Surely you do know where Einstein was able to flee from? Will we ever see you acknowledge the Muslims that saved so many Jews during WWII? Probably not. Because you are an ignorant hypocritical Islamophobe.
So western civilization includes only good things, like Copernicus, but not bad things, like Hitler. That’s not really an argument to be taken very seriously, June. And its hardly anti-Semitic to point out that Israel is in the Middle East, which is kind of dry and running out of water, no matter which religion you are.
So western civilization includes only good things, like Copernicus, but not bad things, like Hitler
HItler rejected both Christianity AND ( obviously) Judaism.
It is the Judeo-Christian tradition that constitutes the conerstone of Western Civilisation. If you reject that cornerstone, you can hardly be considered a part of The West, and this no matter where you’re born…even Austria.
It’s no coincidence either that so many gestatpo officers and such fled to the Islamic world where, after the war, the continued to redact and publish anti-semitic tracts. Most converted to Islam,as well!
The kind of sick and perverse mentality demonstrated by seasoned nazis could only find a safe and secure only find a home in Islam.
The term “Judeo-Christian tradition” was only invented relatively recently. For the vast majority of Christian history, anti-Semitism was fundamental to Christianity. That’s why until after the Second World War, Jews fled from the Christian world to the Islamic, where they would be treated better. (This was true as late as the late 1930s, when many Jewish scholars fled Germany for Turkey, where they were employed in Turkish universities.) No serious historian disputes this. I realize how adverse you are to doing any serious reasearch, but please google the term “blood libel.” Hint: It didn’t originate in the Islamic world.
I’m also somewhat amused to discover that classical Athens, not being “Judeo-Christian” is no longer part of the Western tradition. But you seem to be of the Humpty Dumpty school in interpreting the term “Western Civilization”–it means whatever you want it to mean.
This Judeo-Christian term was only invented recently. You are right Bill. Becuase the Christians want to oppose another Christ-killer religion in Europe, they had to reinvent the history of Europe and the West because otherwise people would call them on their hypocritical BS. So they tacked on “Judeo” before Christian tradition, in a vane attempt to cover up the blatant anti-semitic history of Christian Europe. Another reason they did this is to attempt to lure Jews and Israel in their corner. Unfortunately for them, Jews are not that easily fooled since they know their history and what Christians did to them.
There is no point in posting videos of Islamophobes and Zionists on this blod, June. If you didn’t know already, the only thing we do is laugh at them for their ignorance and hatred. We pity them.
Here’s the offical view of Hitler by the Islamic world’s foremost “scholar”.
http://www.pointdebasculecanada.ca/article/879-qaradawi-aprs-hitler-les-musulmans-puniront-les-juifs.php
Found any Muslims under your bed yet, June?
WAIT!!! What’s that behind you?!!
The kind of sick and perverse mentality demonstrated by seasoned nazis could only find a safe and secure only find a home in Islam.
Or the EDL, or the KKK, or the CCC, or Nigerian child killing Christians, or Pam Geller and friends et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
islam is a horrible ideology for human rights & is just another fascist totalitarian movement disguised as a religion by power hungry fanatics on yet another hell bent jihad for world domination
and of course, some good agitprop pics :)
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/6463/slam6.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/5792/dangero.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8439/daily20.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6877/border5.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6457/action3.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/2821/burn8.jpg
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/6729/shallah.jpg
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