EDL Rabbi on God’s Command to Kill Homosexuals

“You have to have two witnesses… to come up to him and say, ‘do you realise that you’re a fag?'”

Earlier this week I blogged on Sunday’s English Defence League rally outside the Israeli Embassy in London, where California’s “Surfing Rabbi” (and Tea Party activist) Nachum Shifren railed against Islam and expressed his satisfaction that “Arabs and Muslims” were killing each other “like the dogs they are”. Given the presence of LGBT rainbow flags and posters decrying Islamic homophobia, I also noted Shifren’s views on the subject of homosexuality; he has written that it should remain a private matter, and he has attacked “Gay radicals” who want a “quasi Gay/Lesbian hegemony, where a huge ‘bookburning,’ reminiscent of the Nazis, will purge any remnants of the ‘Christian, White, mainstream America'”.

Following the rally, the EDL headed towards Hyde Park and Speakers’ Corner; here, Shifren got into a conversation with a Muslim, who asked him about punishments for apostasy and homosexuality in the Torah. After some bluster and yelling, Shifren explains how his  approach differs from Islam (H/T to Exploring Life, The Universe and Everything for the video):

You have to have two witnesses, 13 years or older that believe in the Torah, to come up to him and say, “do you realise that you’re a fag?”… And the guy says “yes, yes”… then you bring him to the court in Jerusalem. Problem is, that Jerusalem was destroyed, there is no law court, so therefore all the laws you’re stating cannot be adjudicated. It’s a moot issue.

…What do you say about the very law that says kill the homosexuals?… Do you think God was right in giving this command?

…Whatever it says in the Torah is straight from God’s will.

So, God was right to command to kill the homosexuals?

That’s right.

At this point, Shifren’s EDL handlers become agitated about the need for the Rabbi to be somewhere else.

It’s not clear with which strand of Jewish fundamentalism Shifren identifies – he may think that nothing can be done to restore the law court until God intervenes to do so, or he may take the view that humans should work actively to create the kind of society he outlines above.

Shifren, incidentally, has the strong political endorsement of Pamela Geller… whose tendency to overlook the anti-gay views of her allies has caused her some trouble previously.

39 Responses

  1. More Grist for the EDL’s mill.

    Anyone who counts knows the murderous homophobia of those whom the good Rabbi opposes.

    Do you have any idea what percentage of queer bashings are committed by Muslims in Europe?(hint it’s WELL over 50% insome EU countries)

    Were you in any way worried about homophobia and queer-bashings, that’s what you’d be reporting on.

    As a gay, I certainly don’t endores EVERY last thing every EDL members mutter, but I DO know which side of my gay little bread bears the butter.

    The EDL only exist because those who should be looking out for their interests of their members, The Left, Labour and liberals in general, are all fawning over a consitutency that aims to do us all in.

    • “Do you have any idea what percentage of queer bashings are committed by Muslims in Europe?(hint it’s WELL over 50% in some EU countries)”
      Do you have a link for this?

  2. Very few gays will take this bait,

    Misogyny, anti-semitism and homophobia all go together and the biggest practioners of all three, and this by far, are the islamists.

    The Left is losing it, and the regime they’ve imposed on us, and under which we’ve been living now for years, is imploding

  3. How many Jewish-majority countries have the death penalty for homosexual acts? 0

    How many Christian-majority countries have the death penalty for homosexual acts?

    How many Muslim-majority countries have the death penalty for homosexual acts?

    Sure, this rabbi is barmy, but you won’t find many Orthodox Jews supporting his interpretation of the Bible – he is a mad exception.

    But a disturbing number of Muslims, even in the West, support the classical Sharia penalty for homosexual acts based on the majority interpretation of the Qur’an and Hadith.

  4. Some of the commenters here seem to think that homophobia doesn’t count unless its committed by Muslims.

  5. As a homosexual, does it feel good to have people to be prejudiced against. Maybe you could go to Uganda and hang out with the Christians.

  6. I cannot believe this a jewish rabbi that is actually do what the torah says?

  7. The interviewer was, in effect, asking the rabbi to reject God’s authority and God’s Law. No self-respecting rabbi would do this. God’s Law is above the law of man. People should worry less about this life and whether sodomizing another man affords them a few minutes of pleasure. Rather, they ought to worry more about where they will spend etermity.

  8. So Paul, it matters not a jot if a man is loving, moral and strives to do good – all that matters with God is what he occasionally does with a comparatively minor part of his anatomy?

  9. Some of the commenters here seem to think that homophobia doesn’t count unless its committed by Muslims.

    As someone both gay AND religious, I can assure you that Msulim homophobia is not deadly; it has become the major preoccupation of many gays in The West.

    Most of the attacks on queers in Europe are now committed by Muslims, and they are not gratuitous at all, but rather are carried out for specifically religious resons.

  10. We’re still waiting for a link on this claim about attacks on gays in Eurpe

    One senses you’d need a link to find the loo.

    Why don’t you do just 15 minutes of reasearch?

    Google “Yusuf Islam”, or something.

    Idiot.

    • One senses you’d need a link to find the loo.
      Why don’t you do just 15 minutes of reasearch?
      Google “Yusuf Islam”, or something.
      Idiot.

      So we have an outright refusal to provide supporting evidence, combined with a personal attack.

      Says a lot about the credibility of the claim.

    • Let’s put it this way, June. If you told me where the loo was, I’d look for it somewhere else.

  11. How many gays has Yusuf Islam (I presume this is the singer previously known as …?) attacked recently? I have no intention of googling him to find out his views on homosexuality. However, I would concede plenty of Muslims appear to be homophobic. Although many, I would imagine, have never given it much thought.

    And plenty of Christians (one example being in the afore-mentioned Uganda – and how!). And so are some Hindus I expect though they hardly ever shout about it. Homophobia is not unheard of in the world’s only Jewish-majority state, although there are laws protecting homosexuals in that country there are quite a few who would love to have it otherwise, and could succeed too if liberal Israelis don’t pay attention.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to find some atheists are a bit homophobic as well.

    However, I believe a majority in each of these groups, are not homophobic, or at the very least, do not approve of the death penalty for those who don’t conform to their ‘standards’ of morality. If, as I’ve said, they’ve ever given it much thought.

    Not wanting to let Islamic homophobia off the hook or anything, but I find the pointing of the fingers at Muslims more than any other group, slightly, well, suspect.

    • Considering that the most recent news story featured on the front page of “homosexuals against Sharia” dates from March, we may not be the ones living in the past.

    • The link doesn’t support your claims of

      “Most of the attacks on queers in Europe are now committed by Muslims, and they are not gratuitous at all, but rather are carried out for specifically religious reasons.”

      or the one of

      “Do you have any idea what percentage of queer bashings are committed by Muslims in Europe?(hint it’s WELL over 50% in some EU countries)”

  12. Considering that the most recent news story featured on the front page of “homosexuals against Sharia” dates from March, we may not be the ones living in the past

    Look, dozens of MPs, both left and right, have been placed on a hit list by islamists, and then there’s this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8114452/Ofsted-praises-Islamic-schools-which-oppose-Western-lifestyle.html

    For how much longer can you wrap yourself in that warm comfy blanket of denial and rail against U.S. evangelicals.

    I can’t tell whether you’re dumb or smart, Bill. All I know is that you’re so smug, you’re completely anaesthetised.

    Even the old Christ-hating commies at the ACLU are finally beginning to wake up to threat of islamist clerical fascism.

    • That link isn’t relevant to the claims you’ve been making throughout this comments thread.

      Again, do you have any links to support your claims that most attacks on gays are by Muslims and that those attacks are due to the victims being gay and they are also due to the attackers being Muslim, as you claimed?

  13. http://ezralevant.com/2010/10/gaybashing-in-amsterdam.html

    Two thirds of the gay bashing in Amsterdam are committed by Muslims,

    • The article is severely lacking in detail. What study is the article referring to? How credible is the study?

      Going back to your claims

      Do you have any idea what percentage of queer bashings are committed by Muslims in Europe?(hint it’s WELL over 50% in some EU countries)

      and

      Most of the attacks on queers in Europe are now committed by Muslims, and they are not gratuitous at all, but rather are carried out for specifically religious reasons

      The article doesn’t support either of these. Even if the study it refers to is credible, it only relates to one city and it does not prove – as you have claimed – that the attacks are due to the victims being gay and the aggressors being Muslim.

  14. Look, if your ignorance is that profound, and your need for knowledge on this subject that pressing, then may I suggest you do…say… 45 min of on-line research.

    You’re clearly in denial about a large and growing problem.

    Furthermore I,m neither your data-entry clerk, nor your secretary, nor your personal research assistent…geddit?

    Here’s an idea; if you want more details, then just get off you butt and contact Ezra Levant. Contact gay groups in the Netherlands, as well.

    You’re starting to sound like a broken record.

    • Look, if your ignorance is that profound, and your need for knowledge on this subject that pressing, then may I suggest you do…say… 45 min of on-line research.

      You’re clearly in denial about a large and growing problem.

      Back to a personal attack when challenged for evidence in support of your claims. Whoever makes the claim has to provide the evidence in support of the claim.

      Furthermore I’m neither your data-entry clerk, nor your secretary, nor your personal research assistant…geddit?

      I never said you are. I simply asked you to provide supporting evidence.

      Here’s an idea; if you want more details, then just get off you butt and contact Ezra Levant. Contact gay groups in the Netherlands, as well.

      See above

      You’re starting to sound like a broken record.

      … if that’s the case, it’s simply due to your inability to back up your claims with evidence.

  15. Contact Ezra Levant and Dutch gay organisations, and they’ll both tell you exactly what you clearly don’t want to hear!

    • As I’ve already said, whoever makes the claim has to provide the evidence in support of the claim.

      Your inability to do so, shows that your argument is lacking in credibility.

      I’m more than happy to be proven wrong. I simply require the evidence from you.

  16. [...] whom the EDL has made links: back in October, “Surfing Rabbi” (and Tea Party activist) Nachum Shifren was a speaker at an EDL rally in London. Jones’ planned Koran-burning inspired six EDL [...]

  17. a fuller rebuttal to this mis-transcription and twisting of words has been written by Alan Lake and can be found here:
    http://4freedoms.ning.com/group/argumentation/forum/topics/ufc-rabbi-shifren-v-mansour-at?commentId=3766518:Comment:32475&groupId=3766518:Group:1677

  18. [...] Return: Giving “Internet Security Advice” to Terrorism ResearcherKinana on EDL Rabbi on God’s Command to Kill HomosexualsStuart on Daily Mail and Police on “Bizarre Religious Ritual” and [...]

  19. [...] to be keen for him not to continue in this vein were his EDL handlers (I blogged on the incident here, and on Alan Lake’s response to my post [...]

  20. [...] to be keen for him not to continue in this vein were his EDL handlers (I blogged on the incident here, and on Alan Lake’s response to my post [...]

  21. [...] blogged on Schrifen’s association with the EDL here and here, noting his anti-gay views; my posts drew critical comment from Lake [...]

  22. [...] and the EDL’s financial backer Alan Lake has attacked me for examining Shifren’s anti-gay views (somewhat strangely, Lake claimed that my original post amounted to “masturbating in [...]

  23. It’s not clear with which strand of Jewish fundamentalism Shifren identifies

    He was Kahane’s driver. He’s a Kahanist.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>