“It’s not the BBC, you know, you actually get your facts right!” – Liz Truss on GB News, 20 August
Journalist and cultural historian Matthew Sweet writes an open letter to GB News’s Mark Steyn, declining an invitation to appear on his show:
When I agree to make a media appearance, I need to be reassured that the host and the show meet proper journalistic standards. I do not believe that you or GB News are currently meeting these standards. Moreover, I think that GB News is becoming a space though which conspiracy theories are being introduced into the British media.
As an example he cites Naomi Wolf, whose 2019 book Outrages: Sex, Censorship and the Criminalisation of Love was withdrawn by the publisher after a disastrous Radio 3 interview in which Sweet raised issues of accuracy that destroyed her entire argument. In his letter, Sweet describes her as
as person who believes, among other things, that the Pfizer vaccine is a Chinese bioweapon with which the CCP is assassinating community leaders across America.
Further, in conversation with Steyn she
made false claims about the rise in neonatal deaths in Ontario. She suggested that Bill Gates had bribed the BBC into suppressing the facts about this. Then she made similar false claims about neonatal deaths in Scotland. You might have challenged her on these matters, but instead you nodded them through and congratated her.
Steyn wanted Sweet to come on his show for a debate after Sweet had criticised him on a Twitter thread (here), which Sweet summarises thus:
I said that you had insinuated that several young atheles had died from the effects of the Covid vaccine. On your sarcastically-titled “Nothing to See Here” segment you made these insinuations about the recent tragic deaths of the cyclist Rab Wardell, the rugby player Ben Benn, the footballer Molly White and the boxer Dominic Oscar. There is no reported evidence that vaccines had any bearing on their deaths… I would suggest that material like this is beneath serious notice.
Sweet goes on to note how Steyn had misinterpreted mortality data [1], citing a fact-check by Iria Carballo-Carbajal of Health Feedback here.
Sweet has now expanded his case on Twitter, judging
that it is reasonable to conclude that @GBNews is engaged in the promotion of anti-vax conspiracy theories, and perhaps ought to be considered part of that culture itself.
I dislike quoting too much of someone else’s content simply to for its own sake, but given the ephemeral nature of Twitter and its inaccessibility to non-users I think a record outside the platform might be useful to some. Readers should preferably view the original. I also prefer treating Tweets as normal quotes rather than as embedded text, although links are included below.
Sweet starts with a discussion of another Steyn guest, a certain Dr Guy Hatchard [here]. Hatchard was brought on to discuss mortality statistics; Sweet points out that he is not an epidemiologist or statistician, but that he instead “has a PhD in Psychology from Maharishi University of Management, Fairfield, Iowa – a private college founded by the yoga guru Maharishi Mahesh Yogi” [here – be sure to check out the “Yogic flying” gif] and is a member of Voices for Freedom, a New Zealand anti-vax group “recently censured for handing out misleading leaflets about Covid” [here, citing source here].
Hatchard also claims that the Covid vaccine “isn’t really a vaccine” [here], a view “shared by other people on your show. People like your fellow @GBNews stalwarts Matt LeTissier and Neil Oliver” [here]. Sweet then turns to Oliver on LeTissier’s Gettr channel as “a good study for anyone interested in how people can be radicalised by online conspiracy theories” [here]:
Here, @thecoastguy [Neil Oliver] says he’s not an anti-vaxxer because he doesn’t think the vaccine is really a vaccine. It’s a “procedure” and part of a plot to create a one-world government. These beliefs, I’d suggest, are the unfiltered versions of views he expresses on @GBNews. [here]
Sweet could have added that Oliver’s quest for confirmatory views recently led to him interviewing Peter Sweden, in a segment that GB News has deleted after Sweden’s history of far-right comments was highlighted.
Next up: Leilani Dowding [2]:
And here, I think, is the weirdest of them all. Actually, I think a stronger kind of language must be used in the case of your @GBNews colleague @leilanidowding. Here she is on your show in April. [here]
And here, on an an online show by the conspiracy theorist Gareth Icke . She is laughing and doing air quotes as she says that she doesn’t believe that her friend’s mother died of covid, because she thinks covid isn’t real. [here]
@Leilanidowding is an enthusiast for 9/11 conspiracy theories. She appears to think the Moon landings were faked. She tweets extracts from a book that claims the vaccine is a hoax and that NHS ambulance crews were only pretending to be on emergency calls during the pandemic. [here – includes screenshots]
I look at this stuff and I feel I’m seeing into a very dark place. She is often featured on @GBNews. [here]
So I wonder, did you and your producers book guests like this in spite of their being conspiracy theorists, or because of it? [here]
In the case of @thecoastguy and @mattletissier, we might be generous. They have histories in legitimate broadcasting. As for @LeilaniDowding – she seems a much more worrying example. [here]
I wonder how you know of her, without being engaged with the sphere of anti-vax conspiracist websites and youtube channels where she seems to do her work? To me this suggests you may be actively recruiting commentators from that culture. [here]
Finally:
As for the bigger problem of the sympathy between @GBNews and online conspiracy culture, that is a matter for the regulator, and, I’d suggest, requires the urgent attention of the @CommonsDCMS. [here]
UPDATE: GB News has responded to Sweet by letter. The text, which is attributed to “GB News” rather than a specific individual, frames his complaint as being that “GB News should have been more supportive of government policy”. It states that Steyn’s programme has “featured families how have lost a loved on to Covid vaccination”, and draws attention to an article in the BMJ from June 2022 about the government’s vaccine damage payment scheme. It adds that there “would appear to be several thousand” vaccine deaths.
Sweet has posted the letter to Twitter, noting that it “fails to answer any of my substantive points about inaccurate reporting and the use of conspiracy theorists and crackpots to comment on gravely serious matters”.
UPDATE 2 (19 September 2022): On the day of Queen Elizabeth’s funeral, Sweet notes a Twitter exchange between Dowding and another user:
Dowding: Wow the nurse who gave the 1st vaccine out is walking with the queens coffin. This is mad. They will never admit it… . This is doubling down.
Reply: At least we’ll have their name for future reprisals.
The reply has been “Liked” by Dowding, which amounts to approval.
UPDATE 3 (27 Septmber): Sweet has responded to GB News, in a letter that he has also partly posted as a Twitter thread. He writes:
In a statement you seem to imply that I have argued that it is impossible for the vaccine to cause harm or death. Clearly that is not true and I have never expressed such a belief… I think most reasonable people would agree with your assertion that there should be proper reporting on deaths caused by the Covid-19 vaccines.
In your statement you insist that @GBNews does not disseminate vaccine misinformation. Unfortunately, there would seem to be vaccine misinformation in the paragraph in which you assert this.
…The most recent @ONS figures suggest that your assertion of “several thousand” is inaccurate. In the UK 43 deaths have been caused by the Covid vaccine. Each one a tragic loss [link added].
I suspect your figure of “several thousand” comes from raw data relating to numbers of people who died after receiving the vaccine. This includes death from any cause, so those succumbing to any illness, or hit by a bus, would be included.
Now, I am no expert on these matters. Nobody should be booking me to talk about vaccine side effects or mortality statistics. But I did what journalists do: I asked several reputable experts in this field and took advice.
He then contrasts reputable experts with with GB News guests:
Naomi Wolf, who thinks that the Chinese Communist Party is using the Pfizer vaccine to assassinate community leaders in her Hudson Valley neighbourhood… Guy Hatchard, who asserts that meditation groups can lower the crime rate with psychic energy and that the Covid vaccine is not really a vaccine… Tony Hinton, who says that the vaccine rollout was a plot to introduce a digital ID system and a “world government”… @leilanadowding [Leilana Dowding], who spent part of the day of the Queen’s funeral agreeing with one of her followers that the vaccine nurse who accompanied the royal coffin should be subject to “reprisals”… former Emmerdale actor John Bowne [John Bowe], who said on @GBNews that “close to 3% of all people that have been vaccinated have been badly adversely affected by the vaccines or dying” @MarkSteynonline agreed that the NHS was “trying to suppress the story.”… Robert Kennedy Jnr, whose book – endorsed by @MarkSteynonline on your channel, claims a “powerful vaccination cartel” have exaggerated the seriousness of the virus for financial gain. He’s also the source of the Bill Gates vaccine microchip conspiracy theory… suspended NHS doctor Sam White, who says that the vaccine is like “a toxin … a bioweapon” and now works for Robert Kennedy… @GBNews presenter @thecoastguy [Neil Oliver], who says that the vaccine is not a vaccine, that it has killed “uncounted numbers” and that through it, Bill Gates and the CCP have a plan for “nothing less than global governance through the WHO.”… @marksteynonline [Mark Steyn], who has said on @GBNews that the Covid vaccine does not “meet the definition of a vaccine” and that the vaccine “does not work”.
Notes:
1. A good thread on cardiac risks to atheletes by a molecular cardiologist named Glen Pyle can be seen here. He points out that “sudden cardiac death is a leading cause of non-traumatic death in athletes”.
2. I previously discussed Dowding in March. She is also part of a crowd associated with the conspiracy influencer James Melville, having apparently made up with him after criticising Melville’s interview with Matt Hancock. Melville in turn has moved even closer to the Icke milieu, appearing on a show co-hosted by Dowding and Gareth Icke and downplaying David Icke’s claims about transdimensional lizards as “previous opinions”. He writes:
…
Filed under: Uncategorized
The idiocy of a few against vaccines, is without limit. These people ignore the obvious, that vaccines save millions of lives. The annual flu vaccine, which is protection against the same family of virus, as coronavirus, has been effective protection for decades. Although there might be very rare allergic reactions, in a few cases, the levels of protection, or more accurately, reduction of infection risk, for populations is spectacular. I’ve had 4 anti-covid shots, no Covid and still alive and kicking. To deny the existence of these variants of coronavirus, is like claiming the sun goes round the moon. Virus adapts and mutates fairly rapidly, so why does it not exist? Vaccines simply follow the genetic adaptions. Micro-life exists in many forms !! What also exist are nuts… Decrying the value of vaccines, for those who want them, is like complaining the fire brigade cannot save all lives in a fire, but it is nice to know they save the majority…Theorists of conspiracy will claim the fire brigade is under world government orders to reduce the population…..or similar insanity !!!
The idiocy of those calling the many against MANDATORY UNTESTED COVID vaccines “Anti-Vaxxers” is without limit.
Especially as the supposed “Anti-Vaxxers” usually go to great lengths to explain they are pro-vaccine, have had many vaccines in the past, and are even Covid-Vaxxed!
These obsessively Pro-Vax people ignore the obvious:
That traditional vaccine technology has been developed over at least a millennium.
The current version has been around for centuries.
The much vaunted Polio “Vaccine” had been developed over decades.
The initial widely used Vaccine underwent the largest testing programme in history.
And its used had to be suspended within months of the start of the post-testing rollout as it was killing hundreds of people, including children.
And the “Vaccine” has been several different ones with them falling out of favour for safety reasons, and sometimes coming back into favour as it was found the “safer” one wasn’t!
Would Lindsay Fraser, or any other vax-fanatic, like to tell us how many months after START of DEVELOPMENT, especially if it was using novel, never before successful or approved technology, compulsory administration of Thalidomide to pregnant women should have been mandated?!
And how many times does science have to tell you:
Covid is NOT the Flu:
It’s a COLD!
And COLDS are remarkably stable compared to other viruses (the difficulty with vaccination is that there are hundreds of viruses, bacteria, and other causes of the symptoms we lump together under the label “Common Cold”!
It’s Flu that is very unstable.
In fact Corona-Viruses are remarkable in their ability to correct mutations!
And the nonsense about Flu vaccines having “been effective.. Although there might be very rare allergic reactions, in a few cases, the levels of protection, or more accurately, reduction of infection risk, for populations is spectacular” is just that:
Non-Sense!
It doesn’t matter how effective the Flu Vaccine, developed at the end of WW2, but not put into widespread use until decades later, is.
Nor does your anecdotal “4 anti-covid shots, no Covid and still alive and kicking”
There were many pregnant women who swore by Thalidomide.
And no doubt many who suffered no harm, and whose babies didn’t either:
It took years to prove the link!!!
To deny the existence of these hatms is anti-science, and like claiming the Sun goes round the Moon.
Vaccines can, and do, kill, but not necessarily rapidly.
So why does the fanatical pro-Vax Mandate lobby exist?
Do we simply follow the money?
If I were a Conspiracy Theorist I could point to the $BILLIONS we’re paying for the “free” vaccines, especially for the rest of the World.
Not to mention the fame, prestige, kudos, awards, and Damehoods…
Incidentally I used Dollars advisedly:
Why is the supposedly so superior Oxford Astra-Zeneca vaccine no longer being used in the UK while the American ones are?
Again if I were a tin-fioil-hatted loony Conspiracy-Theorist I could crazily claim it’s not just the money, but there’s something “The Science” is accidentally forgetting to tell us!
Yes, pond-life exists in many forms, as do blood-sucking parasities, even if “lizard-people” don’t (except maybe Adam Schiff!!).
What also exist are nuts… Decrying the value of vaccines testing, even for those who want them, never mind for those who might have sound reasons for not wanting them, before even recommending, never mind mandating them, is like complaining the fire brigade should be able to drown every household, even if they were never at any risk of a fire.
You cannot save all lives. Especially those who by a stroke of good fortune were somehow spared for a couple of years due to mild Flu seasons, were now a couple of years older, frailer, ans sicker, and if they managed to survive to the next Winter, wouldn’t survive their next Cold, never mind Flu!
But far worse than trying to “save” those who had an extra year or two of life, and we’re already in Heaven’s Waitin Room, is people using shroud-waving, guilt-tripping, emotional blackmail, and even the abandonment of the rule of law, and a jackbooted police-state, to force children to be their guinea-pif, lab-rat, human-shields! save the majority…Theorists of conspiracy
Some will claim they are simply gullible, immoral, selfish, neo-Stasi.
Others that they are under World government orders to reduce the population…..or similar insanity!
I don’t know.
But you do!
Talking of Nuts:
Nuts are good for you.
Highly nutritious.
Lots of good things in them.
And BILLIONS of people have had them and not died.
Should we make them compulsory for kids?!
Dear Mr. Man, actually you are incorrect on this. Nuts can contain fungus that causes liver cancer….
Dear Lindsay
Feel free to attack a straw man if you can’t actually address the point I was actually raising!
By the way, Lindsay, the Polio vaccine contained contaminants that killed hundreds within months of its post-test rollout.
So you’re saying both nuts and polio vaccines should be banned?
Or just nuts!
Actually Lindsay, now you bring it up, hasn’t the use of Covid vaccines been suspended for some groups.
Haven’t some Covid vaccines been quietly withdrawn after being hailed a success.
And haven’t even our pro-Vax government admitted many Covid-Vax injuries and even deaths.
So you’d agree we should ban them as well as nuts!!!
Dear Mr. Mann, I think you are taking a rather limited approach. Your argument seems to be against ‘mandatory’ Covid vaccine. No-one can ‘spike’ a person without consent. No means no, unless there have been abuses in care environments. There is ‘coercion’ to have the vaccine. It is good common sense for the majority. If the virus enters the brain, the membrane brain blood barrier reduces or prevents antivirals from reaching the infection, and it can cause serious brain damage, or what is known as ‘long Covid’. Being protected beforehand makes sense. It is the same for any preventative vaccine or procedure, if done professionally. There are always risks in medicine, due to individual allergic reactions, but for the majority, the risks are avoided, and the potential for protection is high. The car / bicycle can kill you, but people travel. It’s the risk of life.
That’s balderdash Dear Doktor Fraser.
I know YOU are taking a VERY limited approach.
The argument of almost every single so called “anti-vaxxer”, many, if not most, of whom are not only NOT anti vax, not only not anti Covid vax, but have had all their jabs, including Covid (I’m triple jabbed despite almost certainly having had Covid in January 2020, and have just had my Flu jab):
Is SPECIFICALLY against ‘mandatory’ Covid vaccine.
While “No-one can ‘spike’ a person without consent. No means no.”
We can and are being jabbed not only without INFORMED consent, as no one yet has the relevant test results to inform us with.
But after being bombarded with years of shroud-waving, guilt-tripping, emotional-blackmailing propaganda, mis- and dis-information, mind-control from BEHAVIOURAL “scientists”.
And when you have a “choice” of whether to have the jab, or be banned from entertainment venues, public transport, employment, shopping, leaving your home, and even leaving the country if you don’t accept all that:
That is NOT choice!
If you’re pro- “choice” in the abortion debate would you accept all that to persuade people to protect against the risk life begins at conception and does develop as an unborn child?
After all, by your argument, you still have “choice”!
And not only have you still failed to address my main point about Thalidomide, you haven’t provided any evidence, never mind proof, that “It is good common sense for the majority” that justifies “There is ‘coercion’ to have the vaccine”.
Asserting “If the virus enters the brain, the membrane brain blood barrier reduces or prevents antivirals from reaching the infection, and it can cause serious brain damage, or what is known as ‘long Covid’.”
Is not evidence, never mind proof, it’s yet more coercive fear-mongering.
There isn’t even any evidence Long Covid even exists:
People who definately have never had Covid are as likely to have the “symptoms” of “Long Covid” as those who have!
Being protected beforehand makes sense IF THE BENEFITS to THE INDIVIDUAL SIGNIFICANTLY outweigh THE RISKS to THEM.
Would you accept a 50% risk of dying to protect me from an 0.01% risk of being seriously ill from a bug I’ve got an 0.001% risk of catching even if no one is vaccinated?
Well?!
And by the way I have a serious illness, and am immuno-suppressed, and I don’t want kids with their whole lives ahead of them to be lab-rat, guinea-pig, human shields to protect me from dying in what’s left of my old age.
Unlike the selfish, spoiled, self-centred, cowardly, sheep that do.
It is the same for any preventative vaccine or procedure, if done professionally. There are always risks in medicine, due to individual allergic, or other reactions.
So the risks and benefits to the INDIVIDUAL first need to be established.
Which STILL hasn’t been done for Covid vaccines.
Then the individual should be given the CHOICE.
It’s irrelevant whether for the majority, the risks are avoided, or the potential for protection is high.
As you say, the car / bicycle can kill you, but people CHOOSE travel.
Despite the risks to life being vastly inflated by fear-mongering propaganda from people with an agenda.
Mr. Man, I studied antibodies and immunity in my youth. The coronavirus family contains about 400 types, of which Covid is one. If you study medicine, you will find many problems. One thing, however, is clear. When you pre-arm the antibody production system, to develop antibodies, in advance of infection, the individual protected will have a better chance of fighting disease if encountered. These corona viruses are rapidly mutant, but relatively simple viruses. If you catch the Covid virus, unprotected, it can do a lot of long-term damage. As most serious diseases do. I’m looking forward to progression in an anti HIV vaccine. Aren’t you, or do you believe it does not exist. Many viruses, like Herpes, do not have a cure, but these do have preventative measures that prevent you catching them in the first place.
Mr. Mrs. Miss. or Mz. Frazer, I didn’t study either antibodies or immunity in my youth.
But as far as I am aware the Influenza virus is not of “the same family of virus as coronavirus” regardless of the fact that the “coronavirus family contains about 400 types, of which Covid is one”.
Or that “If you study medicine, you will find many problems.”
And “One thing, however, is clear. When you pre-arm the antibody production system, to develop antibodies, in advance of infection, the individual protected will have a better chance of fighting disease if encountered.”
Is totally irrelevant to whether vaccines, especially novel ones developed with new technology that had NEVER produced a vaccine approved for use on ANY humans, never mind children and pregnant women, should not just be offered to pregnant women and children, but be forced on them.
In Britain we rebelled against that over a century ago, and have never had mandatory vaccination since.
And yet people like you demand children and pregnant women be used as guinea-pig, lab-rat, human-shields, for you, with a partially tested, rushed out, novel vaccine against a virus they have almost zero chance of dying, or even being seriously ill, from!
As for:
“These corona viruses are rapidly mutant”:
Even the “liberals” neo-Stasi New York Times admits:
“Although all viruses evolve, coronaviruses are known to be relatively stable, changing more slowly than the common flu.”
And Covid, for almost all people under 70, never mind 50, is NOT one of the “most serious diseases”
And if you’re “looking forward to progression in an anti HIV vaccine” because you are afraid of AIDS and similar diseases, here’s a thought:
Why don’t YOU protect YOURSELF, by taking “preventative measures that prevent you catching them in the first place”?
Maybe even by locking down your libido, and isolating yourself from all possible contact?
Instead of experimenting with the lives of children!
Mr. Man, now you are getting silly. You say “Why don’t YOU protect YOURSELF, by taking “preventative measures that prevent you catching them in the first place”?” I am due for my fifth vaccination booster against Covid, and, my annual flu vaccine to boot, so I am not in the least put off by your arguments. You clearly have not studied any medicine. Both Covid and flu ARE coronaviruses, as you claim, not retroviruses, like HIV or herpes et al. To answer your other question, volunteer testing is vital on experimental vaccines. Note the word ‘volunteer’. I think you are arguing against yourself, jumping around all over the place, with not much sense, which is not scientific in the least. So enjoy your meeting with Mr. Covid this winter, and allow me to protect myself. Covid infection kills many, globally tens of thousands, (check with W.H.O.) and in the U.K. only 43 (sadly) but a very small number, have died from reactions to the vaccine. This virus unfortunately has the potential to do damage to cortical cells, glial and neurone, so in fact IS a serious infection. Adios. I won’t discuss this further with you until you are qualified in medicine and or study / argue in a scientific disciplined way, otherwise it is pointless talking to you. You have your opinion, I have mine, leave it at that.
Mr/s. Fraser, no, you are now getting even sillier.
You say I said:
“Why don’t YOU protect YOURSELF, by taking “preventative measures that prevent you catching them in the first place?”
I clearly mean by isolating yourself from the danger of eg AIDS.
Rather than expecting EVERYONE ELSE to be protecting themselves from eg AIDS.
So that they can’t pass it on to you.
And if you are “due for [your] fifth vaccination booster against Covid”
WTF do you expect healthy pregnant women & young children to put themselves at risk to add rope and glue to your belt & braces?!
You clearly have not studied anything I’ve said never mind any medicine.
And I never claimed both Covid and flu ARE coronaviruses,.
Only Covid is.
and Flu isn’t.
Neither did I claim one or both were retroviruses, like HIV.
And “herpes et al.” aren’t retroviruses either.
WTF are you on?
About!!!
Especially in the rest of your rambling rant?!?!
Ha ha ha!
“Lindsay Fraser September 21, 2022”
“Mr. Man, I studied antibodies and immunity in my youth.”
“Lindsay Fraser October 14, 2022”
“And, as a lawyer, I would add..”
Impressive CV!
Mr. Man, I told you I was not going to debate with you further. For the record, I am qualified in two disciplines 1) I am qualified in psychology, specialised in human memory which includes immunological memory, 2) I qualified separately in Tort civil law, although taught by prosecutors in international criminal law. By contrast, I believe you hold a University degree in “Shouting”. For that reason I will not debate with you further, as it is pointless, I debate with people who have bothered to study, and know their subjects, and I do not mind your goading. You are wasting your time and space.
You’ve not been debating.
And you still haven’t produced any evidence anyone in the scientific community agrees with your claim that Influenza is a Coronavirus.
And no, your claims that they use a similar method of attachment is no more proof than claiming a fish and a plant that attach by a sucker are the same family!
And you never even began to address my main question, asked repeatedly!
Mr. Man, I am only interested in what the original author of this blog reports, who is skilled in investigation. You, on the other hand, are unqualified in anything relevant, off topic of this blog, and you have provided no evidence for your somewhat limited understandings and unqualified claims. You are a shouting goading little juvenile fart, so further notifications of comments from you will be deleted unread. Waste your time and space, not mine. Carry on shouting…., to yourself.
Thank you for so eloquently summarising your entire counter-“argument”!
And you STILL haven’t addressed my main question:
“Would Lindsay Fraser, or any other vax-fanatic, like to tell us how many months after START of DEVELOPMENT, especially if it was using novel, never before successful or approved technology, compulsory administration of Thalidomide to pregnant women should have been mandated?!”
Mr. Man, I meant above “Both Covid and flu ARE coronaviruses, NOT as you claim, not retroviruses, like HIV or herpes et al. “
Are you taking the P!ss, p!ssed, or just generally trolling?!
I never claimed you meant either or both of Covid and/or Flu were not retroviruses.
And I know you meant:
“Both Covid and flu ARE coronaviruses”
Strangely neither the CDC nor the WHO say Influenza is a Coronavirus.
So I can understand why you believe and assert the opposite.
And as far as far as I am aware there is no science that says Influenza is a Coronavirus.
So I’m not surprised you spreat the opposite as part of your ideological orthodoxy.
What the actual scientific science says is for example:
“Influenza requires hemagglutinin and neuraminidase to infect, whereas SARS-CoV-2 uses protein S. Both viruses depend on a viral RNA polymerase to express their proteins, but only SARS-CoV-2 has a proofreading mechanism, which results in a low mutation rate compared to influenza. E1KC4 and camostat mesylate are potential inhibitors of SARS-CoV-2 S protein, achieving an effect similar to oseltamivir. Due to the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate, nucleoside analogs have been developed (such as EIDD-2801), which insert lethal mutations in the viral RNA. Furthermore, the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate suggests that a vaccine, as well as the immunity developed in recovered patients, could provide long-lasting protection compared to vaccines against influenza, which are rendered obsolete as the virus mutates.”
And for example, and more specifically:
“A more obvious difference between influenza and COVID-19 is in their causative agents.”
“Influenza viruses belong to a virus **family** known as **Orthomyxoviridae**.”
“COVID-19 is caused by a coronavirus named SARS-CoV-2, which is classified in the **family** **Coronaviridae**.”
“Both families consist of RNA viruses, but they differ particularly with regard to the protein layer that encapsulates the RNA.”
“More specifically, influenza viruses express two surface antigens (foreign proteins)—hemagglutinin (H) and neuraminidase (N)—which trigger an immune response. The exact form of these antigens changes every now and then, resulting in the periodic emergence of new, more virulent influenza viruses with the potential to cause a pandemic.”
“The surface of SARS-CoV-2 does not have these antigens. Rather, similar to other types of coronaviruses, its outer surface is studded with glycoprotein spikes, which give such viruses a **crownlike**, or **coronal**, appearance. Spike glycoproteins are responsible for triggering the immune response, and they carry out the critical function of enabling the coronavirus particle to enter cells, where it then replicates.”
Please stop wasting my time with YOUR anti-science conspiracy theory idiocy!!!
Man, what you have copied from medical text is correct. What you have interpreted is not.
Both viruses depend on a viral RNA polymerase to express their proteins, but only SARS-CoV-2 has a proofreading mechanism, which results in a low mutation rate compared to influenza. E1KC4 and camostat mesylate are potential inhibitors of SARS-CoV-2 S protein, achieving an effect similar to oseltamivir. Due to the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate, nucleoside analogs have been developed (such as EIDD-2801), which insert lethal mutations in the viral RNA. “COVID-19 is caused by a coronavirus named SARS-CoV-2, which is classified in the **family** **Coronaviridae**.”
“Both families consist of RNA viruses, but they differ particularly with regard to the protein layer that encapsulates the RNA.”
“A more obvious difference between influenza and COVID-19 is in their causative agents.”
“Influenza viruses belong to a virus **family** known as **Orthomyxoviridae**.”
There are sub-classifications in both families, of course, as there are thousands of antigen types involved to lock on to cells of different kinds.
“The surface of SARS-CoV-2 does not have these antigens. Rather, similar to other types of coronaviruses, its outer surface is studded with glycoprotein spikes, which give such viruses a **crownlike**, or **coronal**, appearance.
You are a buffoon first order. You ask “Please stop wasting my time with YOUR anti-science conspiracy theory idiocy!!!”
I do not need to respond further, and I do not mind your manipulative comments, to try to drag me back, but as you ask me not to respond further, I won’t, so carry on, you think you are clever, but you are not. And you are not answering the question you accuse me of not answering !!
You appear to be a badly malfunctioning bot!
Mr. Man. Today is your day of learning. I am posting this in case anyone intelligent wants to know how these viruses are connected, and RNA differences. You only have to look at micrographs to see what they are. And note on vaccine adverse reaction comparable risks. Only 43 persons in U.K. had fatal reactions to Covid vaccine but More than 940,000 people have died of COVID-19 in the U.S.
By comparison, during the 2019-2020 flu season in the U.S., about 38 million people had the flu and about 22,000 people died of the flu.
Source: ncbi.nim.nih.gov
On viral geometry Covid / influenza and antigenic pressure:
Here we sought to understand and predict, from first principle, to what extent the mutability of the spikes of influenza and close relatives of SARS-CoV-2 could be attributed to Ab pressure. The magnitude (titers) of Ab response against a given epitope is a direct consequence of the B immunodominance hierarchy patterns of an immunogen, which are the result of various aspects of the humoral response to antigen (21–23). Amongst them is the B cell repertoire – the number of B cell clones targeting different epitopes (24–29), their germline affinity (24, 30), and T cell help to B cell (31). Here, we concentrate on the geometric presentation of the spike to Abs. We have previously shown using coarse-grained molecular dynamics simulations, that the geometry of the immunogen spike presentation on the virus recapitulates the known immunodominance of hemagglutinin (HA) head compared to its stem (24).
Discussion
Humoral immunity is often characterized by dominant versus recessive responses to different epitopes on the same antigen. This hierarchy of B cell immunodominance depends on many factors, amongst them are the precursor frequency within the germline B cell repertoire, BCR affinity, and the steric accessibility or antigen geometry. Pathogens take advantage of antigen geometry to shield sites of vulnerability. Such is the case in influenza spike hemagglutinin, where conserved sites are located and the sterically hidden stem (56–58), or on HIV spike gp120 where the vulnerable and evolutionary conserved CD4 binding site position does not allow Abs to form bivalent interactions, reducing the effective affinity of Abs (59). While mature Abs are nevertheless capable of approaching sterically restricted sites via somatic hypermutations that could extend, for example, their CDR3 loops (60), immunogen shape and valency manipulates B cell immunodominance patterns, their selection process in the germinal center or the expansion of memory B cell population (24, 61, 62). Because viruses must evade Ab response to survive, B cells immunodominance patterns could be a proxy to glycoprotein mutability, coupled through antigen geometry. Thus, we studied whether spike presentation geometry to Abs is a good predictor of their mutability. Using a coarse-grained model of an antibody, HA, and the S protein of SARS-CoV-2, in both trimer and viral presentation model system, we computed the Ab affinity maps as a proxy for Ab pressure on the spike. We used those maps to assess whether the magnitude of mutability at a cluster of sites is just what would be expected by geometrical considerations (Figure 2F).
We found that for the seasonal flu spike – HA, geometry through the presentation on the virus could explain, to the first order, the mutability patterns at its surface. In particular, the mutability of the five antigenic sites is ordered as would be expected by the geometric restriction imposed by their position on the spike, as did the conserved group 1 epitope, which is functionally important for HA conformation change (Figure 2E). Hence, we speculate that rather than maintaining functionally important sites conserved by negatively selecting mutants at such sites, the virus positions functional sites at a location, where their acceptable mutational rate would be determined by their need to escape from targeting by the average polyclonal Ab response.
To understand whether a similar principle governs the mutability of coronaviruses, we created a similar coarse-grained model of the SARS CoV family. As coronaviruses do not mutate much, we decided to analyze its mutability across the virus sub-species, using sequences isolated from different hosts in the years 2003–2019. In mammalians, these viruses have to evade immunoglobulin response which we hypothesized would lead to geometrically similar escape patterns. We found that geometry, through Ab targeting, shapes to the first order the mutability patterns on the sarbecovirus subgenus spike map. Hence, these viruses evolve across various hosts under roughly geometrically-similar Ab pressure – at least the main axis of the virus seems to be the first, principles axis of mutability resulting from the density of spikes on the viral surface.
The mutational probability distribution we sampled for the sarbecovirus subgenus is analogous to sampling different “realizations” of the statistical ensemble of the sequence landscape of the viruses (63), where each realization is a viral from a different host. For the seasonal flu, we considered sequences over a large period – starting from 1918 and aggregate them to a single probability distribution analyzed. In both cases, presentation geometry roughly explained sequence entropy. Comparing both these approaches to describe mutability distribution is conceptually similar to the ergodic theorem in statistical physics, where the averages of a stochastic process sampled over time are equivalent to the averages computed over different statistical realizations. While evolution patterns of mutating viruses are not an ergodic system in general – as many mutants are not viable, and hence unreachable in the sequence space, the similar geometry of immunoglobulins and spike presentations could be is the reason our model works for both these different instances, with mutations distributed across time (for influenza), or across species (for sarbecoviruses). Statistical physics models have been previously used (64) to analyze the sequence space to compute the fitness landscape space of viruses (65, 66). The overall fitness of viruses is often split into its intrinsic fitness of the virus and fitness component related to evasion from the immune response (i.e. Abs) (67). As our approach allows for rough estimation, from first principle, of the virus Ab-dependent element of the fitness, it can be used as a prior in inference methods of the intrinsic fitness.
Because of its proofreading mechanism, SARS-CoV-2 is not expected to mutate much. Nevertheless, since the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic has erupted, its sequences have been analyzed to detect mutations that would increase its fitness, infection capabilities, or allow it to escape from Abs (16, 17, 55, 68). To see if we can find traces of escape due to Ab pressure on the SARS-CoV-2 spike, we compared its mutability map to our computed affinity map over time and found an increase in the correlation value since the beginning of the pandemic (Figure 4H). While the correlation value of 0.46 computed for October 2020 is still low, it could suggest the spike starts to acquire some escape from Ab mutations. Since the RBD is involved in binding to ACE2, mutations at this domain could also modify the binding energy to the receptor. Interestingly, for the 2009 influenza pandemic, we found a low correlation value of 0.18. This could suggest that the 2009 flu pandemic has not been evolving for long enough under Ab pressure for the geometric pattern to be apparent and that the evolution of pandemic viruses is not, at least initially, directed by Ab pressure acting on their surface residues. It is more likely that mutations that accumulate in their spikes serve to increase their fitness and infecting capabilities in humans. Additionally, it is possible that pandemics do not elicit as strong a memory recall as seasonal/circulating viruses, and hence do not need to evolve as rapidly to escape Ab immune pressure.
We propose here a simple geometrical interpretation of the surface mutational landscape of that spike that could inform, based on sequences and the 3D structure alone, whether a dominant component of virus evolution is evasion from Abs. This technique could serve as an indicator of the evolutionary stage in the infection trajectory of a virus and whether it is on its way to becoming a circulating virus such as the seasonal flu.
Go to:
Materials and Methods
The geometry of immunogens and epitope choice
The first input to our model was an atomistic description of the geometry of our immunogens, which we generated from available structural information and pdb files (49, 69). For HA and S, solvent-accessible residues were identified using pymol script “findSurfaceResidues” (https://pymolwiki.org/index.php/FindSurfaceResidues), which identifies atoms with a solvent accessible area greater than or equal to 20 Ang2 (HA) and 15 Ang2 (S). We then find the residues to which those atoms belong to. This selection criterion gives a uniformly distributed set of residues on the face of HA and S (see S Figure 1A, B). A total of 184 epitopes (residues) were chosen for HA and 254 epitopes for S.
We constructed a simplified model of the influenza virus, in which 40 HA molecules are arranged in a fixed conformation on a sphere of radius equal to 16nm (a value chosen for computational tractability). The model recapitulates (24) the average spacing between adjacent HA on the influenza viral surface of ~ 14 nm (Harris et al., 2013). We also constructed a simplified model of the coronavirus based on the cryo-EM images of the SARS virus, in which 65 S molecules in closed form (49) are arranged in a fixed conformation on a sphere of radius equal to 87nm (50), resulting in a density of 0.27 spike pre 100nm2.
Steric constraints affect the access of antibodies to epitopes and this modifies the on-rate, thus modulating the affinity. To compute the relative magnitude of this effect for different epitopes presented by immunogens with different geometries, we employed MD simulations. In these simulations, a Lennard-Jones potential describes the interactions of antibodies with the immunogen atoms, and a separate Morse-potential is used to model interactions of the antigen binding region of the Ab to its specific cognate epitope (see Table S 1). To estimate the steric effects alone, we first assumed that the affinity of Abs to all epitopes was equal in the absence of steric constraints. We then used MD simulations (Lammps software) (70) to compute the average time for the Ab antigen-binding region (S Figure 1C–D) to find the target epitope for the first time, which is called a “first passage time”. By running simulations multiple times, and then averaging over many simulations, we could estimate the mean first passage time to the epitope. The inverse of the mean first-passage time is the on-rate, and thus we computed the relative on-rates for Ab binding to different epitopes for different immunogen geometries. We take the on-rate of the first arm of the Ab model as a proxy for Ab affinity to a residue.
Coarse-grained model of the antibody
To estimate the encounter probability and rate of different residues on the surface on the immunogens by the Ab, we employed coarse-grained MD simulations. The B cell receptor is represented using 8 beads (see S Figure 1). We used a coarse-grained model of the Ag and Ab (see S Figure 1). In (71), a model of the Ab was suggested, built from ellipsoids and spheres. Here, we built our Ab model using spheres of different sizes to approximate the same dimension and flexibility of the Ab. The MD simulation system is composed of different beads (see Table S 1). This size of the beads was chosen such that the distance between the two Fabs is approximately 15nm and the length of the Ab arm is 7nm (72). The size of the Fc region is chosen to be 5nm (73) (see Table S 1). To construct the 7nm arm we use 3 beads (types 4,5,6 – S Figure 1B–C, Table S 1), where nearest-neighbor beads are connected with rigid bonds of length 1.75nm. Bead type 4 (arm hinge) is connected to bead 3 (Fc hinge) by a rigid bond of length 1.75nm. The epitope bead (type 7, Table S 1) was chosen to have the same size as the Fab beads (1.75nm) (Table S 1). The beads along the arm (type 4,5,6) are on a straight line (no kink), and the middle bead (type 6) is larger, to approximate the elongated ellipsoid shaped arm of the Ab (71).
The average angle between the two arms of the Ab fluctuate with a mean of 120 degrees and obeys the harmonic potential
()=(−0)2,
(S1)
with θ0 = 0.66radians and κ = 10kbT/radian2, resulting in a relatively rigid model of the Ab (De Michele et al., 2016).
The system is integrated using a Langevin thermostat under “fix nve” to perform performs Brownian dynamics simulations (see https://lammps.sandia.gov/doc/fix_langevin.html).
The Fab bead interacts with the respective epitope bead via the Morse potential
=0[−2(−0)−2−2(−0)]for<,
(S2)
where r0 = 1.75nm which is the distance between the Fab bead and an epitope bead at which the LJ energy between them is zero, and the cutoff radius rc = 2.2nm. D0 = 50 is the energy and the bond fluctuation scale α = 1nm−1: the Morse potential only serves to anchor the 1st arm to the epitope allowing the second arm to search for a second epitope.
The beads interact with the Lennard-Jones potential
=4[(,)12−(,)6]for<,
(S3)
where ε = 1, σi,j is the interaction distance between beads i and j, and the cutoff radius is rc = 21/6σi,j. The values of σi,j are detailed in Table S 2. The LJ interaction distance σi,j between all beads composing the Ab arm (types 4, 5, 6), and the epitope bead (type 7) is 1.75nm to construct the 7nm long arm. The LJ self-interaction distance of the Ab arm bead (type 6) was taken to be 4.2nm (Table S 1) to maintain an angle of approximately 120 degrees between the arms. The interaction distance of other pairs of beads is the sum of their radii (Table S 2).
Alternative explanation:
Abstract in English,
Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) and Alphainfluenzavirus are RNA viruses that cause coronavirus disease-19 and influenza, respectively. Both viruses infect the respiratory tract, show similar symptoms, and use surface proteins to infect the host. Influenza requires hemagglutinin and neuraminidase to infect, whereas SARS-CoV-2 uses protein S.
Note: Both viruses depend on a viral RNA polymerase to express their proteins,
but only SARS-CoV-2 has a proofreading mechanism, which results in a low mutation rate compared to influenza. E1KC4 and camostat mesylate are potential inhibitors of SARS-CoV-2 S protein, achieving an effect similar to oseltamivir. Due to the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate, nucleoside analogs have been developed (such as EIDD-2801), which insert lethal mutations in the viral RNA. Furthermore, the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate suggests that a vaccine, as well as the immunity developed in recovered patients, could provide long-lasting protection compared to vaccines against influenza, which are rendered obsolete as the virus mutates.
Mr. Man, although this thread is focused on Covid conspiracies, regarding vaccinations, and I cannot concur with you on these, but I understand your point about coercion to be vaccinated, e.g. not being able to enter public spaces unvaccinated, and so as this thread is about vaccinations, I cannot develop in detail another point you touched on, institutional experiments, of which we can concur, is we have 30,000 documents of other kinds of institutional criminal experiments on children committed in the U.K. including sterilisation experiments, drug experiments, which blight lives. As I said, this thread is focused on Covid vaccinations. The term “coronavirus” is a generic term for virus that attach, with geometric corona boutons, although influenza, with similar attachment sites, and Covid have different genetic antigens / RNA structures, but they are similar in they attach to cells in the same way as each other. Volunteer testing is about human rights. But in terms of institutional experimentation generally speaking, the U.K. is a prime violator. There I would agree with you.
Sighhhhhh
Mr/s/iss/z. Fraser
I don’t know what you thought or hoped you could prove by spamming the replies with all that.
But you failed.
Nowhere does it say Influenza is a Coronavirus.
And everywhere it says Influenza is high mutation and Coronavirus is low mutation.
And nowhere does it say children or pregnant women are at high risk of death or serious illness from Covid.
Nor that it’s proven that they are ate extremely low risk from Covid vaccines.
Never mind that it’s its logical, moral, or legal, for you to demand that children and pregnant women be used as lab-rat guinea-pig human shields to protect anyone.
Never mind people who boast they’ve been quintuple jabbed!
And you claimed amongst much other nonsense these gems of your logical, scientific, and medical wisdom:
“I think you are arguing against yourself, jumping around all over the place, with not much sense, which is not scientific in the least. So enjoy your meeting with Mr. Covid this winter, and allow me to protect myself…. Adios. I won’t discuss this further with you until you are qualified in medicine and or study / argue in a scientific disciplined way, otherwise it is pointless talking to you (September 28, 2022 at 1:48 pm).
“The annual flu vaccine, which is protection against the same family of virus, as coronavirus”
“You clearly have not studied any medicine. Both Covid and flu ARE coronaviruses, as you claim, not retroviruses, like HIV or herpes et al.”
“Mr. Man, I meant above “Both Covid and flu ARE coronaviruses, NOT as you claim, not retroviruses, like HIV or herpes et al“.”
“these variants of coronavirus…. Virus adapts and mutates fairly rapidly”
“These corona viruses are rapidly mutant”
And yet you admit and even quote from my and your scientific sources:
“Both viruses depend on a viral RNA polymerase to express their proteins, but only SARS-CoV-2 has a proofreading mechanism, which results in a low mutation rate compared to influenza.”
“Due to the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate”
“COVID-19 is caused by a coronavirus named SARS-CoV-2, which is classified in the **family** **Coronaviridae**.”
“Both families consist of RNA viruses, but they differ particularly with regard to the protein layer that encapsulates the RNA.”
“Influenza viruses belong to a virus **family** known as **Orthomyxoviridae**.”
“The surface of SARS-CoV-2 does not have these antigens. Rather, similar to other types of coronaviruses, its outer surface is studded with glycoprotein spikes, which give such viruses a **crownlike**, or **coronal**, appearance.
“You are a buffoon first order.”
“I do not need to respond further, and I do not mind your manipulative comments, to try to drag me back, but as you ask me not to respond further, I won’t” ( September 28, 2022 at 3:41 pm)
“Mr. Man. Today is your day of learning. I am posting this in case anyone intelligent wants to know” (September 29, 2022 at 2:23 am)
“coronaviruses do not mutate much”
“Because of its proofreading mechanism, SARS-CoV-2 is not expected to mutate much.”
“but only SARS-CoV-2 has a proofreading mechanism, which results in a low mutation rate compared to influenza.”
“Due to the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate”
“the SARS-CoV-2 low mutation rate suggests that a vaccine, as well as the immunity developed in recovered patients, could provide long-lasting protection compared to vaccines against influenza, which are rendered obsolete as the virus mutates.”
Etc, etc, etc….
By the way.
Further to your “note on vaccine adverse reaction comparable risks. Only 43 persons in U.K. had fatal reactions to Covid vaccine but More than 940,000 people have died of COVID-19 in the U.S.”
That tells us nothing about, and so does not allow informed choice on, the relative risks of untested vaccination of children, and pregnant women and their unborn children, compared to their risks from Covid.
And incidentally while:
“By comparison, during the 2019-2020 flu season in the U.S., about 38 million people had the flu and about 22,000 people died of the flu.”
The abandoned US pandemic plan was based on a flu epidemic that KILLED around a MILLION Americans.
And if I recall correctly: it did not include plans for mandatory vaccinations, masking up, or locking down!
By the way by the way.
Further to your “note on vaccine adverse reaction comparable risks. Only 43 persons in U.K. had fatal reactions to Covid vaccine but More than 940,000 people have died of COVID-19 in the U.S.”
Why are you comparing the (inflated) deaths WITH COVID in a country of around 360 million people (over a longer timescale) with the supposed 43 admitted persons in a country of around 60 million people (over a shorter timescale)?!?!!!
That tells us everything we need to know about your level of logic and education.
Unless it’s in behavioural manipul… sorry, “science”!!!
Mr. Man, I have explained the medical research in simple terms, about how the influenza and Covid viruses share the same attachment methods
“The term “coronavirus” is a generic term for virus that attach, with geometric corona boutons, although influenza, with similar attachment sites, and Covid have different genetic antigens / RNA structures, but they are similar in they attach to cells in the same way as each other.”
The text explains why there is a difference in mutation speeds.
Yet you describe this research, which you do not understand, as “spamming” hahaha!! Mr. Man get lost !! Trying to debate medical viral similarities with you is the same as debating with a piece of wood.
FFS are you male or female (and no, you’re wrong again, it’s one of the few gender-neutral unisex names)
Mx. Wo/Man Frazer, you have NOT explained the medical research in ANY terms.
Are all species that attach by hand, or hand and foot, or sucker, or spike, or pen!s, or whatever, the same family?
Are fishes and plants that attach by suckers the same family?!
As you’ve admitted the influenza and Covid viruses share SIMILAR, NOT the same attachment methods.
And so:
“The term “coronavirus” is a generic term for virus that attach, with geometric CORONA BOUTONS, [..] influenza, with SIMILAR attachment sites, and Covid have DIFFERENT genetic antigens / RNA structures”
So:
“[..] they are SIMILAR in they attach to cells in [NOT] the same way as each other.”
As you’ve repeatedly shown, contradicting your own claims:
Covid “is classified in the **family** **Coronaviridae**.”
While “Influenza viruses belong to a virus **family** known as **Orthomyxoviridae**.”
And:
“The surface of SARS-CoV-2 does NOT have THESE antigens. RATHER, similar to OTHER types of coronaviruses, its outer surface is studded with glycoprotein spikes, which give SUCH viruses a **crownlike**, or **coronal**, appearance.
All you have to do is show me a scientific text which says Influenza IS a Coronavirus.
Surely if it IS part of the Coronavirus family (which your own quotes show it isn’t.).
Or even if there are “generic” “Coronaviruses” that are outside the Coronavirus family (which your own quotes imply there aren’t).
You should be able to show me lots of definitions and other references which confirm you’re right.
I’m still waiting.
As for:
“The text explains why there is a difference in mutation speeds.”
Which is a confirmation that there IS a difference.
And again your (re-)quotes and other extracts all say, repeatedly, that Influenza mutates quickly.
And Covid mutates slowly.
Which confirms what I said, and confirms you were wrong about that.
What more is there to understand about that?
Yet you posted 2,634 words (no, I didn’t count them) that you describe as “this research”.
That you insist I do not understand.
I’m not a medical or scientific expert.
But I understand plain English.
And understanding whether fast means fast, slow means slow, Coronavirus family means Coronavirus family, and not Coronavirus family means not Coronavirus family, doesn’t require you to be a doctor or hold a doctorate.
But posting 2,634 to avoid showing me the facts in plain English is an indication that would lead a conspiracy theorist to theorise you were trying to hide the truth and baffle with “science”.
Not that I would dream of accusing you of that.
But it was irrelevant to the debate.
Excessive posting.
Un-needed and unwanted.
So, yes, it’s 2,634 words which I “understand, as “spamming” hahaha!!”
“Mr. Man get lost !!”
“Trying to debate medical viral similarities with you is the same as debating with a piece of wood.”
Mr. Man, you do not argue, discuss or debate, you shout. On viral locking similarities you have the intellectual dexterity of a chunk of concrete. I have answered your question and in depth. I do not mind what you ‘shout’, to me, it is irrelevant, and obviously you have not even looked at the micrographs showing the similarities between the two viruses’ geometry. It is the function that matters not the name. I will not further discuss with you, because you do not understand the point the medical text I posted is saying. What you enjoy is telling people they are wrong and you are right, when you are not. The sub-classifications of influenza, are a different, but related family to coronaviruses, because they function, on locking, in the same kind of way. I would have asked you to define a retrovirus for comparison, but as I do not care twopence what you shout, I won’t bother. Adios !! Carry on shouting…
No, his thread, like the article, is focused on ACCUSATIONS OF Covid conspiracies.
And ad hominem, distraction, deflection, straw-manning, and occasional appeals to authority without backing them up.
And I merely listed a number of facts to counter those, none of which you could refute.
In fact, with the few you actually addressed, you proved my points!
So, what, regarding vaccinations, cannot you concur with me on?
And my point about coercion to be vaccinated is not simply about the coercion, although that should be enough, it’s about the fact that data manipulation (why give daily excess deaths WITH Covid against 5 year averages, when that metric is DESIGNED to HIDE the highs over the five years, and they go up with population automatically – but compare Sweden’s with the freak preceding low year when the 2020 excess deaths were actually BELOW the ten year average?!) and for all preceding years (why not against Russian “Flu” – almost certainly a Coronavirus – Spanish, Asian and Hong Kong Flu, adjusted for population and demographics?!)?
As for “The term “coronavirus” is a generic term for virus that attach, with geometric CORONA BOUTONS, although influenza, with SIMILAR (IE not the SAME Corona Boutons, but DIFFERENT spike) attachment sites, and Covid have DIFFERENT genetic antigens / RNA structures, but they are SIMILAR in they attach to cells in the same (no, SIMILAR) way as each other.”
So NOT the SAME FAMILY!
As for the article:
“I do not **BELIEVE** that you or GB News are currently meeting these standards” – so NO evidence OR facts just BELIEF
“Moreover, I THINK that GB News is becoming a space though which conspiracy theories are being introduced into the British media” – DITTO
“Sweet describes her as person who **BELIEVES** – So she hasn’t said it’s a fact
“Further, in conversation with Steyn she”
“made **FALSE** claims about the rise in neonatal deaths in Ontario. She **SUGGESTED** that” – so NOT a CLAIM
“made **FALSE** claims about neonatal deaths in Scotland” – OR WERE THEY SUGGESTIONS OR HER BELIEFS AGAIN
“I said that you had INSINUATED” – so NOT CLAIMED
“you made these INSINUATIONS” – so again NOT claims
“There is no REPORTED evidence” – so there could be reasonable suspicions, warning flags, undiscovered evidence, UN-reported or even HIDDEN EVIDENCE
I would suggest that such clearly weasel worded counter-“arguments” and “evidence” are what drives reasonable people to suspect conspiracies!
“I would suggest that material like THIS is beneath serious notice.”
“Sweet goes on to note how Steyn had misinterpreted mortality data [1], citing a fact-check by Iria Carballo-Carbajal of Health Feedback here.”
Riiight – so the “fact-checkers” who when they are taken to court always defend themselves by sagying they give opinions NOT facts.
And hasn’t this “fact”-“checkers” “fact”-“checking” been debunked?!
“Sweet has now expanded his case on Twitter, judging”
“that it is reasonable to conclude that @GBNews is engaged in the promotion of anti-vax conspiracy theories, and perhaps ought to be considered part of that culture itself.”
No, it’s reasonable to conclude that Sweet is himself engaged in the promotion of pro-vax propaganda theories, and perhaps ought to be considered part of that mis- and dis-infomation culture itself.
One might even conclude he might be more than just gullible, and has been bought off by the $$$TRILLION Big-PharMafia that keeps getting caught out in scams and cons!
Though I, of course, couldn’t possibly comment.
As for:
“Hatchard also claims that the Covid vaccine “isn’t really a vaccine” [here], a view “shared by other people on your show. People like your fellow @GBNews stalwarts Matt LeTissier and Neil Oliver” [here]. Sweet then turns to Oliver on LeTissier’s Gettr channel as “a good study for anyone interested in how people can be radicalised by online conspiracy theories” [here]:…”
Well it’s clearly a “Vaccine” according to the newly minted definition of vaccine created concurrently entirely coincidentally with the creation of the covid vaccine.
But it’s equally clearly NOT a Vaccine under the traditional definition!
UPDATE
By the way:
“The reply has been “Liked” by Dowding, which amounts to approval.”
No, it doesn’t, it’s just one of many ways to note or tag the Tweet.
But some people insist they can not only read people’s minds through the InterWeb tubes:
But peer deep into their souls too!
But maybe they’re actually looking into a mirror!!
UPDATE 3 (27 Septmber): Sweet has responded to GB News, in a letter that he has also partly posted as a Twitter thread. He writes:
In a statement you **SEEM** to **IMPLY** that I have argued that it is impossible for the vaccine to cause harm or death. Clearly that is not true and I have never expressed such a BELIEF…”
Notes:
Ad hominem is not argument!
Neither is appeal to authority!!
Or straw manning!!!