At Church With Doug Giles

When I wrote my investigation into Doug Giles’s background a few days ago, his Clash Church website was down. Now it’s back up: a surprisingly grimy and low-key affair. According to its intro:

WHEN THE CHURCH IS FACED WITH A CRUDDY CULTURE, IT CAN EITHER ABSORB IT, SEPARATE FROM IT OR INFILTRATE IT…CLASH CHRISTIAN CHURCH CHOOSES TO INFILTRATE

I’m sure Doug’s fellow pundits at Townhall will be pleased to hear Doug has infiltrated their crap. Or does he mean something else? As part of the church description, we read:

We envisage a worship center filled with hundreds of loving, cool and righteous people of all ages, races and economic strata.

Cool? As in: “Thou shalt be cool?” Eh?

For men, we embrace a masculine spirituality. We believe God created men to be men without apology. We believe that Biblical masculinity is necessary for the church to be the overcoming organism God intends for it to be. Therefore we avoid the feminization of men and the spiritual emasculation of God’s rowdy warriors that usually accompanies most evangelical churches.

You hear that, Christianity Today?

…We don’t mind getting our hands dirty doing God’s work of restoring our neighborhoods, cities and nations. We believe our labours will positively impact our culture for hundreds of years…We have big dreams.

We are Clash Christian Church.

That’s the word from the hood of the Adventura Residence Inn, where the church meets at 10:30 each Sunday (According to Marriot, the hotel is “Nestled in one of the most upscale areas in Miami”). Just to labour the point that he really is not gay, honest, the dear leader’s profile adds:

As far as other obsessions are concerned, Doug is into big game hunting and monster shark fishing, oil painting, mountain biking and a bunch of other things which incorporate running, screaming, yelling, and potentially breaking bones with his family and friends.

Say, just the kind of guy who could serve as an army chaplain in Iraq or Afghanistan, perhaps?

But this is the bit that really interests me:

Doug and his Church are overseen by local, national and international leaders within the greater body of Christ.

Yes, yes, but who? What’s with the anonymity? Does he mean His People and Morning Star International under Rice Broocks, or someone else? Why the secrecy? But here’s an unexpected clue: the statement of faith has been lifted wholesale (unattributed) from the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, a (rather dull) Missouri-based Reformed denomination that split from the United Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A in 1981 (the EPC allows women’s ordination and is more tolerant of charismatic practices than most Presbyterian churches. It also actually rejects reconstructionism). However, Giles’s church is not listed on the EPC website [UPDATE July 2005: More information about these leaders is now available. See my entry here, scroll down].

The Thoughts of Chairman Giles are also available for purchase, including a range of multi-CD sermons, some of which are “powerful and funky”. There is also a “Clash 4 kids” “youth mentoring program which pairs Christian adults with at risk kids ages 8-16”. Ahh, faith-based social work…

20 Responses

  1. […] UPDATE (30 October): The Clash Christian Church website is now back up, and I have investigated it here. […]

  2. Your research seems very in depth and complete. One question that came to mind while absorbing all this was, with Pastor Gile’s church, radio show and web pubications at Townhall.com – how many people does he reach? I admit I haven’t gone to his website to ask the same question – figuring I’d receive a less-than objective answer.

    TJ

  3. Hey Bart! Seems like this is “in-depth and complete research” is a bit of selective de-constructivism (what happened to reconstuctionism). Not difficult to do if you want to take the piss! You should keep your day job:
    You hear that, Christianity Today? You’re a bunch of poofs! …We don’t mind getting our hands dirty doing God’s work of restoring our neighborhoods, cities and nations. We believe our labours will positively impact our culture for hundreds of years…We have big dreams. We are Clash Christian Church.

    Really Reads: Lastly, we believe in the centrality of the Christian worldview to all aspects of life: politics, education, business and the arts. We don’t mind getting our hands dirty doing God’s work of restoring our neighborhoods, cities and nations. We believe our labors will positively impact our culture for hundreds of years. We have confidence in the triumph of the cross and the resurrection of Christ. We have big dreams.

    Another instance: Doug and his Church are overseen by local, national and international leaders within the greater body of Christ. Yes, yes, but who? What’s with the anonymity? The website reads: An advisory counsel comprised of both national and international leaders from various churches oversees Pastor Giles’ life, pastoral duties and doctrine. They are:

    David Fredriksz, The Eagle’s Nest Church, Ede, Holland Joe Rodriguez, The Mobile Christian Center, Mobile, Alabama Glenn Robertson, Kaleidoscope Church, Cape Town, South Africa Jeff McCreight, New Life Family Center, Lubbock, Texas

    Either your info is stale or you wasting our time with the half bake research. I’ll hit your site for more spoofs later!

    • Curious…Doug’s site lists these guys as people he is accountable to….how many times have any of these guys ever come to Miami and spent time with Doug or his church? Because I was with Doug his first 3 years in Miami (1996-1999)….and I heard all these same names and never ONCE saw any of these guys.

  4. Either your info is stale

    Of course this article is a bit “stale” – it’s over a year old, since when Giles has overhauled his site. If you noted my “UPDATE July 2005” section you’ll see I’m keeping up to date.

    I’ll hit your site for more spoofs later!

    ohh, scary…

  5. Interesting. So, because they meet at a hotel in Aventura–an upscale neighborhood–then they’re all rich or something?

    Note: The church rents space in the hotel. Doesn’t own it. I live five minutes from the hotel, and I live in a multicultural neighborhood (native-born blacks, Indian and Bangladeshi, Caribbean and Latino immigrants, Russian immigrants, and a notable Orthodox/Chassidim community. I’m Cuban-American.) This is a rental and residential home community, hardly upscale. But it abuts Aventura. Hallandale and Hollywood and North Miami, also full of working and immigrant folks (many Haitian immigrants, I might add)class folks who struggle, are within a ten minute drive of Aventura.

    I’ve visited Clash Church half a dozen times. It’s non-fussy and folks mostly wear jeans to church. While they don’t have a building of their own, they donated half of their building fund to Katrina relief. And the church is mixed in color, age, economic class, if not necessarily creed.

    So much for your “rich by association” bit… If they were loaded, I’m guessing they’d have their own church building/school/etc. Hm.

    Mir

  6. I see that Doug’s thrown in the towel on starting a church in Miami and moved to TX…

  7. I see Doug has shut his church down and moved back to Texas…so much for his big vision in Miami (almost 20 years and NOTHING accomplished)….

    • What were you expecting to be accomplished? And what have you accomplished for the Lord’s glory in the last 20 years? If you are expecting proof of God’s work, something that smacks folks in the face, then you’re god is not the same as mine. Perhaps there are reasons why “NOTHING” was accomplished that you are not privy to. When you were “with Doug” for those 3 years, did you follow him everywhere to know who he had breakfast, lunch or dinner with? Did you know his every daily move to know who he talked with? Were you privy to all his phone calls and emails? Did you travel with him to know who he met with on those trips? You sound more like someone who has an axe to grind, rather than an objective critic. Perhaps Doug Giles is not for you, but he obviously is for some others. I’m just beginning to learn about Doug Giles, but your opinions have no sway over me because you’re biased. Be objective or be silent.

      • Good for you….ignorance is bliss

      • FYI…..since Doug was the one popping his mouth off about his “big” vision and his “big” destiny and all the “big” things he was going to do for God….i.e. saying things like “I’m believing God for 2 million souls” (he said that in the fall of 1995) …”I’m believing God to have 6 campus ministries in 3 years with at least 100 college students saved in each one” (he said that in the spring of 1996)…. (3 years later he had 0 campus ministries with 0 students saved)….saying things like “Even if I fail, I am going to have an 800 member church because even the losers have 800 member churches” (he said that in the summer of 1995)….(20 years later he might have had a dozen people)…(I have recordings of Doug saying these things if you want to post your mailing address) and on top of that …mocking and belittling other Christian ministries (calling them “wussy” Christians) and slandering and ostracizing people who got tired of his nonsense and left his church….and then pulling his pants down and crapping all over people who served him faithfully for years (because all he ever cared about was his #s and his tithes)…then yes…maybe this guy is the “model” of ministry humility and integrity

      • Another thing this jacka## did that I find really ironic. In May 1998, there was a guy in his church named Jim (a guy who served him faithfully for 7+ years…did everything Doug asked him to do, was a leader/elder/cell group leader in the church, was a worship leader, let Doug use his house for meetings, services, prayer meetings, tithed faithfully every week)…he and his wife of 4 years got pregnant with their first child and Doug called them a couple of “fu##ing dumba**es” for getting pregnant (what a great human being!!!)…Doug was pissed because he knew they may leave his church (since it was going nowhere…the church was meeting in his apartment after 3 years) and they were his #1 “tithers”. This guy left and joined the military…Doug very smugly told him and his wife “oh well…if a war breaks out in Middle East I guess God will give you the grace to get though it since God called you” (Like it would be a fitting punishment to the guy for leaving the church (i.e. like it would be God’s judgment.))
        Ironically this guy did serve honorably in Iraq and in the military for years. And I know for a fact, that Doug has NEVER ONCE reached out to this guy and his family and apologized to him for the way he treated them.
        Yet…now he tries to pretend to be “Mr. “I love out troops”, “I support out troops”, “I love America”…and on his FB page his wife calls him a “great” Patriot.
        I would be very cautious about buying into Doug’s Pro America, pro-military talk. If you look on his website (clashdaily.com (about Doug Giles) you will see: “Doug’s speaking fee is $5000 plus air fare plus a nice hotel room plus food allowance”. Every You Tube video you see of him, he always tried to pitch his books and his hunting videos.
        His whole Clash talk show was just a way of him to be able to make a living without having to get a real job especially since he was a total failure as a pastor.
        The man is a merchant who just uses people and then spews them out once he is through with them.

    • Also…maybe you like pastors who spends hundreds of dollars to fly their hairdressers in from Texas to Miami to give them a haircut while preaching gung ho be a warrior for Christ sermons every Sunday….(a guy that is just living off of other Christian’s money)….that’s some wise stewardship

      • a true warrior is know for his talk and not his actions….at least in Doug’s world (and this is Doug’s world….we all just live in it)

  8. 10 signs for spotting a sociopath
    #1) Sociopaths are charming. Sociopaths have high charisma and tend to attract a following just because people want to be around them. They have a “glow” about them that attracts people who typically seek guidance or direction. They often appear to be sexy or have a strong sexual attraction. Not all sexy people are sociopaths, obviously, but watch out for over-the-top sexual appetites and weird fetishes.

    #2) Sociopaths are more spontaneous and intense than other people. They tend to do bizarre, sometimes erratic things that most regular people wouldn’t do. They are unbound by normal social contracts. Their behavior often seems irrational or extremely risky.

    #3) Sociopaths are incapable of feeling shame, guilt or remorse. Their brains simply lack the circuitry to process such emotions. This allows them to betray people, threaten people or harm people without giving it a second thought. They pursue any action that serves their own self interest even if it seriously harms others. This is why you will find many very “successful” sociopaths in high levels of government, in any nation.

    #4) Sociopaths invent outrageous lies about their experiences. They wildly exaggerate things to the point of absurdity, but when they describe it to you in a storytelling format, for some reason it sounds believable at the time.

    #5) Sociopaths seek to dominate others and “win” at all costs. They hate to lose any argument or fight and will viciously defend their web of lies, even to the point of logical absurdity.

    #6) Sociopaths tend to be highly intelligent, but they use their brainpower to deceive others rather than empower them. Their high IQs often makes them dangerous. This is why many of the best-known serial killers who successfully evaded law enforcement were sociopaths.

    #7) Sociopaths are incapable of love and are entirely self-serving. They may feign love or compassion in order to get what they want, but they don’t actually FEEL love in the way that you or I do.

    #8) Sociopaths speak poetically. They are master wordsmiths, able to deliver a running “stream of consciousness” monologue that is both intriguing and hypnotic. They are expert storytellers and even poets. As a great example of this in action, watch this interview of Charles Manson on YouTube.

    #9) Sociopaths never apologize. They are never wrong. They never feel guilt. They can never apologize. Even if shown proof that they were wrong, they will refuse to apologize and instead go on the attack.

    #10) Sociopaths are delusional and literally believe that what they say becomes truth merely because they say it! Charles Manson, the sociopathic murderer, is famous for saying, “I’ve never killed anyone! I don’t need to kill anyone! I THINK it! I have it HERE! (Pointing to his temple.) I don’t need to live in this physical realm

  9. Unless…maybe you like “pastors” who are self-promoting hot air balloon windbags that only care about themselves…that talk a big game and do absolutely nothing for anyone….spiritual armchair and keyboard warriors…if that is the case…this guy is for you….

  10. FYI…Douglas is his middle name…his real first name is Leslie

  11. DOUG GILES IS A WARRIOR!!!! He trained in Tae Kwon Doe for 2 years in Lubbock before moving to Miami…I learned my fetal fighting techniques from Doug and I used those when I fought in UFC 2 in 1994.
    I’ve also developed my own product line of fetal fighting products that has made me a wealthy man…..Thanks Doug !!!!

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    • I concur…Doug Giles is the ultimate warrior!!! And I know something about what it means to be a warrior!!!

      I fought Mark Kerr in UFC 15. Before my fight I said that I was going to show the world what “real” fighting is!

      I proceeded to get my face rearranged and was knocked out in less than 20 seconds. Now you might think that I was embarrassed….embarrassed that I talked a big game and then wasn’t able to back it up….well…the one lesson that I learned from Doug Giles is this: that a warrior is known for his talk and not his actions!

      It’s more important what you say and what comes out of your mouth than what you produce!

      A true warrior is known for his talk and not his actions!

      Just like Doug mouthed off to the whole world when he moved to Miami (in 1996) that in 20 years he would be having church services in the Miami Arena where the Miami Heat play (today it’s the American Airlines Arena) and said that someday he would have a “Jimmy Swaggart” ministry and that his church would single handedly drive crime rates down, bring revival to South Florida, and send missionaries all over the world and that he had the “call” of an apostle (meaning that he could just lounge around Aventura and read books all day so he could “devote himself to the Word and to prayer” like all “apostles” do (Acts 6:4)) while people in his church would work 60 to 70 hours a week so he could live off their tithes.

      Just like Doug said that he would never leave Miami (that Miami would be the last place he ever lived)…and then Doug mocked and slandered and belittled all the Christians that left his ministry because they got tired of his tyrannical behaviors….called them all “wimps”, “losers”, “quitters”, “covenant breakers”…..”You gave me your word…I guess your word is no good”…..”you’re going to regret leaving”…

      I bet Doug feels very proud of himself today….he really showed those people

      It’s exciting that Doug found his calling and success as an internet keyboard warrior

      Thanks Doug!!! You are an inspiration to me!!

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